[Micki]

From Swedish news translated with Google.
(I fixed up some obvious errors).

So cutbacks begin...

Children in the United States may be shorter schoolweeks
Too expensive to run school buses with higher fuel prices
More and more American schools are closed on Mondays - the school has become too expensive.

The scars left by the recession and petrolcrisis felt more and more.

Petrol and diesel prices shoot quickly in height which is now beginning to bear in more and more areas.

But few thought well that it would affect children's school - which was actually been the case throughout the United States.

The reason is that children are no longer going to school. High fuel costs have received more than 100 school districts spread over 17 states to cut down on school buses.

One of seven schools can short week
With prices around 4.70 U.S. dollars / gallons - nearly 8 kronor per litre - the estimated cost of diesel school buses have risen by around 40 percent. Something that is now forcing schools to act.

And no shortage proposal hardly exists. In some places talks about the short tours, in the second to set them completely. (Which is possible, for example, in California, where schools are not required by law to arrange transport.) Or, as seems most common, to abolish Mondays and move on to four-week.

According to The Time who has taken part of a survey by the American Association of School Administrators are considering now one of seven schools across the United States to ignore one of five schooldays.

Fourday schedule best
In addition, said nearly half the 546 respondents schoolinspectors that they are planning to cut down on the number of excursions. 15 percent will remove extra courses that require transport. Almost a third have already reduced the number of teachers as a result of the higher costs - and some schools have been shut down completely.

-- A four-schedule is often the least painful way to deal with this on, "says Marty Strange working for the organization Rural School and Community Trust for The Time.

But the short week is not a new phenomenon in the United States.

During the 70's oil crisis was done the same. However, affected only a few districts - which quite soon returned to normal week.

Original article in Aftonbladet

[coyote]

A couple of native English articles as well:

Reuters: Schools eye four-day week to cut fuel costs (posted by Leanan)

TIME: Four-Day School Weeks

[TheDude]

Or the WSJ Blogs: Does a Shorter School Week Sound Appealing?

The little farm town I grew up in switched to 4 day school weeks about 10 years ago, mostly for budgetary considerations, as they had rebelled and separated from the county school district, an old maverick tradition my family has played a big part in. Nice to be in the vanguard.

I used to work 4x10 and much prefer it to the five day grind.

[ReverseEngineer]

Well, concurrent with a 4 day school week, you really also need to get the whole community to cut back to a 4 day work week. Elsewise, what are the kids doing and who is watching them on the day they are off from school but you are working (assuming you still have a job).

So OK, unemployed people will go into the Day Care business, we all know how well that pays but even so, what this means is that the day that workers got warehousing for their kids in the public schools they now gotta pay at least something for to get a neighbor to watch the kids. Maybe it saves the school district some money, but it has to cost the parents more money. Their school taxes aren't going to decrease.

In the effort to economize, how far away is the 3 day work/school week? This should hide unemployment figures well

On the upside, a 4 day weekend doesn't sound too bad

Reverse Engineer

[pup55]

Down here in suburbia they got the idea a few years ago that it would be more efficient to make the schools as gigantic as possible, make fewer of them, and then use a fleet of buses to bus 100% of the kids to school, even if they live two blocks away.

The local elementary school is an intimate, cozy 1300 students. 4000 each in the local high school and middle school.

The end product of this system, despite coming out of a fairly affluent area, is about at the national average for test scores, and is apathetic, intellectually non-curious, and has no emotional connection with the schools, the system, or anything else. The jury is still out as to whether they will be able to fit into the workforce.

So as far as I can tell, shortening the school week might be doing them a favor. They might pick up something from their parents or others on the extra day off.

Of course, you will get no end of whining because a lot of these parents depend on the schools being open so that they can use them like day care.

[ROCKMAN]

A 4-day school week sounds like a partial solution at first. Then we're back to scalability. As others have mentioned some but not all kids would have no one at home to tend to them. Yep....job and business opportunities for hundreds of thousands of folks. And 10's of thousand of new businesses. Yep...and 10's of billions of $'s for the construction of the new day care centers for the kids to be warehoused. And the billion of gallons of gasoline being burned by individual rides to daycare. And the years to build the new day care centers which will have to be funded by the gov’t because no private investor would risk the billions of $’s given the possibility of the gov’t changing its mind about the 4 day school week?

Unfortunately, the math is simple: all those 10's of millions of kids, for whom the system pays 10's of billions of $'s for that fifth day of school will now have that expense picked up by a third party. Yep...some grandmas and neighbors will be drafted but there will still be many millions of kids to tend to on that 5th day. I don’t see this as an energy savings idea as much as a transfer of cost from the schools to the families. I'm not so much knocking the idea as much as pointing out our biggest weakness in addressing PO: our society is so complex that the ability to quickly and positively adapt to the changing situation is very limited. But we need to float every idea worth debating. I feel any meaningful response to PO in the short term has to be centered on conservation. I don't see where shifting the majority of kids one day a week from one fuel intensive environment to another as equally and perhaps even more fuel intensive arrangement in the short run (given the tremendous capital/energy expense for new infrastructure) will generate much, if any, net gain. Like so many other possible solutions to PO, if we had begun 30 years ago we might have been able to adapt efficiently. But we didn't.

[Roccland]

This will be a trick...

Who watches the kids on Fridays or are employers going to 4 day weeks as well?

Hmmm...

for an already strapped consumer - a trick indeed.

[nobodypanic]

nationally institute a 4 day week, period.

among the benefits to doing so would be to increase discretionary use of gas and cash.

frankly, i don't see what's so sacrosanct about a 5 day work week.

[Tanada]

nationally institute a 4 day week, period.

among the benefits to doing so would be to increase discretionary use of gas and cash.

frankly, i don't see what's so sacrosanct about a 5 day work week.

Before 1918 a six day work week was standard, the 5 day week came as a way of putting more people to work with the same amount of useful labor during the Great Depression. As an employer by cutting the week to six days and putting on enough additional workers to make up the shortfall I increased my paperwork 16% and helped out a lot of people, theoretically speaking. Cutting the week from 5 to 4 would require another 20% increase either in leangth of work day (10 hours vs 8 ) or hiring 20% more people for the 8 hour day to keep the same level of production. For many occupations it would mean trouble as they are 7 day a week jobs already, and if there were a mandate for a four day week then some would work 4 tens and some would work 3 twelves in all likelyhood.

[vision-master]

Just a ploy for the School Districts to justify a tax increase. After all, someones gotta pay the Admin for those $100,000 + salaries. I say, cut back on teachers and fire the janitors. Let the kid's do the cleaning.

[Starvid]

The Aftonbladet paper is a notorious lying rag of a paper, always with the wrong facts.

A four day week because you can't run the school buses? Put the kids on bikes instead.

[Micki]

The Aftonbladet paper is a notorious lying rag of a paper, always with the wrong facts.

A four day week because you can't run the school buses? Put the kids on bikes instead.

Given that Coyote posted same news from Reuters and Time, I wouldn't be so quick to state that Aftonbladet is lying.

Is it just me or have you drifted more towards "trolling" Starvid?
My feeling is that your posts of late are just oneliners.

[Starvid]

The Aftonbladet paper is a notorious lying rag of a paper, always with the wrong facts.

A four day week because you can't run the school buses? Put the kids on bikes instead.

Given that Coyote posted same news from Reuters and Time, I wouldn't be so quick to state that Aftonbladet is lying.

Is it just me or have you drifted more towards "trolling" Starvid?
My feeling is that your posts of late are just oneliners.

Well...

It is not my meaning to troll. Really. If that has been the appearance I do ask you to forgive me.

In this case it is that I have a passionate hatred for Aftonbladet - it is really awful, like The Sun except the writing is worse and there are no page three girls.

Also I think there are more and more posts on this site which are just, well, stupid.

The usual format is: "Oh no, [minor meaningless fixable issue] has happened, we're all going to die NOW!!!!111 Aaaaaargh!!!1111"

It does get tiresome. Especially when most of the things are about Americans who'll have to change their way of life one tiny bit and considers this the end of the world to such a large degree that they believe it will be accompanied by brain-eating zombies roaming the streets.

[Micki]

The Aftonbladet paper is a notorious lying rag of a paper, always with the wrong facts.

A four day week because you can't run the school buses? Put the kids on bikes instead.

Given that Coyote posted same news from Reuters and Time, I wouldn't be so quick to state that Aftonbladet is lying.

Is it just me or have you drifted more towards "trolling" Starvid?
My feeling is that your posts of late are just oneliners.

Well...

It is not my meaning to troll. Really. If that has been the appearance I do ask you to forgive me.

In this case it is that I have a passionate hatred for Aftonbladet - it is really awful, like The Sun except the writing is worse and there are no page three girls.

Also I think there are more and more posts on this site which are just, well, stupid.

The usual format is: "Oh no, [minor meaningless fixable issue] has happened, we're all going to die NOW!!!!111 Aaaaaargh!!!1111"

It does get tiresome. Especially when most of the things are about Americans who'll have to change their way of life one tiny bit and considers this the end of the world to such a large degree that they believe it will be accompanied by brain-eating zombies roaming the streets.

Some things I of course agree with. And it is not just in the states that people have been spoilt since end of WW2.
But my understanding is that distances may be quite different in US to what they are in say urban/suburban Sweden and there is a lack of public transport.

I don't think Aftonpravda is any worse then say Expressen and the on-line format is somewhat more pleasing. But I have notices that they are often quoting other news sources without naming source and I don't like that.
I did however write an angry letter to their foreign correspondent Wolfgang Hansson for his terribly amateurish first report of the situation. Basically his analysis concluded that Russia invaded Georgia becasue the Russians didn't like ex-Sovjet members to have make friends with West. This is the only time I've bothered writing to a reporter like that but it just totally enraged reading the ignorant nonsense he probably had his eleven yearl old son put together for him. So my opinion of that newpaper isn't terribly hight either. But heck it is free and as long as I don't click ads I don't make money for them and I just have to remember it is full of errors.

[TheDude]

It does get tiresome. Especially when most of the things are about Americans who'll have to change their way of life one tiny bit and considers this the end of the world to such a large degree that they believe it will be accompanied by brain-eating zombies roaming the streets.

Have you ever been to America, and observed our attitude in person? In case you had any doubts, you're not really far off the mark. This is always worth a rehash:



Sorry about the national narcissism. Give us a break, we're a Global Superpower! Which re-elected a guy who says things like "Too many good OB/GYN's aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country!" We can do anything we want!

So how do you get the kids to school in Sweden? Nuclear powered sleigh or somethin'?

For many occupations it would mean trouble as they are 7 day a week jobs already, and if there were a mandate for a four day week then some would work 4 tens and some would work 3 twelves in all likelyhood.

Actually for jobs that require workers 24/7 it's three shifts of 8 hours through a 5 day work week, then 2 shifts of 12 hours on the weekend. People working the 12s also do two 8s, for a nice round 40 hours.

There's software for arranging shifts/personnel. One supervisor I had was thoroughly baffled by it - and was ex-Navy inventory...

[BlueGhostNo2]

Totally off topic but I gotta agree with Starvid here, the new Econ & Finance forum has attracted lots of the doomer porn dross from other PO.com forums & is starting to grate on me.

There are just too many people who whilst perhaps even being very well informed and smart are just too damn sure everything is going south - as a result they have a large selection bias for news which confirms their pessimistic world view. This selection bias shows up in the articles and threads that get posted and bumped.

I'm not saying I disagree that global warming and PO will cause huge problems but to continually say 'got gold', 'got pm' and 'the us financial system is going to fail totally' etc etc is just plain hubristic.

NEITHER YOU NOR I KNOW THE FUTURE.

It is possible that a big reduction in credit, the velocity of money & a recession will result in the price of commodities & assets dropping a long long way. It is also possible that government(s) will, due to declines in tax revenues and an inability to borrow, print money create hyper-inflation & sending the prices sky high. However no one here knows for sure what is going to occur.

SO we would all benefit if people could keep a relatively open mind, be abit more humble & post up things which are more factual, interesting and not necessarily just showing how right you are and how clever you've been.

I mean christ, there was a post the other day about government suppressing super PV technology invented by Tesler.

[Micki]

Totally off topic but I gotta agree with Starvid here, the new Econ & Finance forum has attracted lots of the doomer porn dross from other PO.com forums & is starting to grate on me.

There are just too many people who whilst perhaps even being very well informed and smart are just too damn sure everything is going south - as a result they have a large selection bias for news which confirms their pessimistic world view. This selection bias shows up in the articles and threads that get posted and bumped.

I'm not saying I disagree that global warming and PO will cause huge problems but to continually say 'got gold', 'got pm' and 'the us financial system is going to fail totally' etc etc is just plain hubristic.

NEITHER YOU NOR I KNOW THE FUTURE.

It is possible that a big reduction in credit, the velocity of money & a recession will result in the price of commodities & assets dropping a long long way. It is also possible that government(s) will, due to declines in tax revenues and an inability to borrow, print money create hyper-inflation & sending the prices sky high. However no one here knows for sure what is going to occur.

SO we would all benefit if people could keep a relatively open mind, be abit more humble & post up things which are more factual, interesting and not necessarily just showing how right you are and how clever you've been.

I mean christ, there was a post the other day about government suppressing super PV technology invented by Tesler.

18 posts and already ticked off. Wow.
Anyway, no matter what you take a positon. Gold is one. if you think all is going to be hunky dory perhaps this is a begain time to stock up on financial shares. Perhaps you believe official inflation statistics and think 5% bonds are great way to protect your financial future. No matter what you are taking a position.
And when someone posts news that to novice readers don't necessarily mean anything, adding some comments give a hint of what the poster thinks you should look at.
Given that this is a forum for sharing thougths, ideas, beliefs as well as news and articles etc. there is nothing strange about someone expressing which position they take and I believe most here, including myself, genuinly share those thougths. It is not to tick you guys off.

[Roccland]

NEITHER YOU NOR I KNOW THE FUTURE.

Maybe not the details, but if ya squint - one is in the five ring.

[cyberbub]

Hmm, this is very interesting. Recently I have literally come up with the idea of a 4-day school week completely independently, typed it into Google and suddenly found that I am not alone!!

I can't understand the issue about day-care for kids on the 5th day. Parents who currently work 8 hours, 5 days a week, have to provide child care between 3pm and 5pm or 5.30pm, don't they? All that would happen is that instead of paying for 2 hours of childcare per day for 5 days per week, they might have to pay 10 hours for 1 day per week. Surely there is no difference?

I see the 4-day school week being an excellent idea, not only for the environmental reasons stated elsewhere on this forum (transport/heating bills), but also:

(a) it would be very popular with both kids and teachers - who wouldn't prefer a 3-day weekend? Some experts think that kids spend too much time in formal education, especially at the younger ages.
(b) many parents might find it much more convenient to have an 8pm to 5pm 4-day school week; most jobs are (still) run on that schedule, and parents who do want to spend some time with their kids during the week currently have great difficulty trying to find jobs that allow working 8:30am to 3pm; they do exist but are rare (apart from jobs in schools of course!). Many parents might find it easier to convince an employer to work 80% time 4 days a week on a normal schedule, than 5 days a week on a 6-hour schedule.
(c) it would cut down hugely on the amount of congestion and pollution on the roads - businesses could schedule their weekly deliveries to peak on a Friday, when they knew that the roads would be much quieter. Here in the UK, up to 25% of peak hour traffic is schools-related, that would disappear on Fridays. There would probably be less accidents and fatalities involving children as well, due to travel to school and the traffic chaos outside school gates etc.

Let me know whether I have got the points above wrong!

[MarkJ]

One of my sisters loves her excellent paying gravy job as an elementary school teacher. She'd love it even more if she had an additional day off in addition to summer break, spring break, winter break, holidays and weekends.