[vampyregirl]

Three more Canadian soldiers died in Afghanistan Wednesday, killed by a roadside bomb in Khandahar. Per capita we have lost at least as many troops over there as the Americans have. Let us not forget their sacrifices.

[Plantagenet]

God bless the brave soldiers of Canada.

-------------

“We have become too civilized to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil. Those who take the sword perish by the sword...”

--George Orwell

[Cashmere]

What did they sacrifice their lives for, exactly?

Can you help me with that VG?

I'd say they tragically were killed, but I'd hardly call it a sacrifice, unless it was a sacrifice so that fat Canadians could continue to drive SUVs. But that's not much of a sacrifice, is it?

So, from my perspective, they lost their lives for NOTHING.

And that is what we should remember, so that we can stop it from happening to more children.

[alokin]

You remember the Mondays demonstration in the ex-DDR?
They only stood there with candles.
Something similar might be appropriate to show that the Canadians don't wish their boys to be killed in a useless war .

[vampyregirl]

What did they sacrifice their lives for, exactly?

Can you help me with that VG?

I'd say they tragically were killed, but I'd hardly call it a sacrifice, unless it was a sacrifice so that fat Canadians could continue to drive SUVs. But that's not much of a sacrifice, is it?

So, from my perspective, they lost their lives for NOTHING.

And that is what we should remember, so that we can stop it from happening to more children.

Are you an Al Queda supporter Cashmere? If so then I'd say you are a sick son of a bitch. Our troops are over there fighting Al Queda terrorists and the Taliban regime who supported them.
Fighting for oil? How much oil is there in Afghanistan? Can you help me with that one?
Remember we stayed out of Iraq. Its not about oil to us. America has gotten what they wanted in Iraq or at least Exxon has. They have the big concessions over there now.

[cynthia]

Dear Gawd, Vampyregirl, You seem smart but not so much with your position about who is doing what to whom. Cashmere is harsh and looks horrible in pink but still he makes me think. Jumping to the assumption he is a supporter of the propaganda enemies is folly.

It didn't take long to figure out the number of soldiers killed in the so-called "war on terror" were from rural communities, say, like in my lovely state of Oregon. Why? Because fish and timber are not a viable source of income so our rural kids who came from that struggling family income source signed up for a college EDUCATION -thanks to Uncle Sam, and were sent to WAR.
And the Canadian soldiers? What are their stories?
And yes, Oregonians are driving lots of gas hogging vehicles but they are now trying to get rid of them.
Our present government capitulated on their position about proof of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. Afghanistan was in the geographical way. And I suspect poppies grow well there and that is another part of the scheme.
This War and the coming ones will always inflame, maim and upset all involved. War must be stopped.
Do you know how? I wish I did.
cynthia

[Plantagenet]

Afghanistan was in the geographical way. And I suspect poppies grow well there and that is another part of the scheme.

Aha!

I was wondering why Obama is so determined to send more troops and expand the US role in the Afghanistan war.

[mos6507]

our rural kids who came from that struggling family income source signed up for a college EDUCATION -thanks to Uncle Sam, and were sent to WAR.

That's the faustian bargain. There is always a catch. They chose to be ignorant of the risks, kind of like the ARM foreclosure victims.

Afghanistan was in the geographical way. And I suspect poppies grow well there and that is another part of the scheme.

That's a pretty well developed conspiracy theory you have. Are you making it up as you go along? Just lump in Afghanistan into the mix because it's "over there".

[cynthia]

I mentioned Afghanistan because VPYGRL mentioned it in her retort to Cashmere. I know solid links are the best support of statements.
Still, I rely on my memory. When we first arrived in Afghanistan there were reports that the farmers hoped the US would supply them with good poppy seeds like before. Here's a link I'm not familiar but looks good enough to throw in now: http://www.oilempire.us/afghanistan.html
I am fortunate to have and I generously support a local independent radio station http://kboo.fm/index.php
Some of the best news comes from the station's volunteers who provide information that we are not supposed to know.
So no, I am not making it up as I go along mos6507 and I thank you for challenging me back up my theories.
cynthia

[Pretorian]

Three more Canadian soldiers died in Afghanistan Wednesday, killed by a roadside bomb in Khandahar. Per capita we have lost at least as many troops over there as the Americans have. Let us not forget their sacrifices.

They came to a foreign land with arms for adventures/CASH/perks/ets. They got unlucky. Where is the sacrifice? They didnt drove over that bomb to disarm it, or did they?

[MadScientist]

They were defending freedom from terrorists. pffft what more could any patriot ask for????????????????????????????????????

we all know sanity is out of the question...

[mattduke]

Any politicians (excluding Saddam) lost their lives?

[Cashmere]

What did they sacrifice their lives for, exactly?

Can you help me with that VG?

I'd say they tragically were killed, but I'd hardly call it a sacrifice, unless it was a sacrifice so that fat Canadians could continue to drive SUVs. But that's not much of a sacrifice, is it?

So, from my perspective, they lost their lives for NOTHING.

And that is what we should remember, so that we can stop it from happening to more children.

Are you an Al Queda supporter Cashmere?

Al Who?

You think you're sending 18 year old boys and girls to their deaths protecting Canada from Al Mama?

Seriously, that's your belief? That's why we're there and that's why you're there?

That's the government line? What's the government line on oil? That it's not running out? That Peak is a myth?

Oh wait. Vamp Girl believes that we'll be saved by alternatives.

Why did we invade Afghanistan?

When the Taliban took over, opium production plunged. When the U.S. took over, opium production was raised to historic levels.

Afghanistan borders Iran on the East. Iraq is on the West.

Afghanistan is the country through which any major pipeline toward China/the East could advantageously be run.

That's why.

It's always about the resources, it's always about the money. Always. If you're looking somewhere else, you're being distracted.

The young men and women who have died in Afghanistan have had their lives thrown away.

Were you expecting an Al Queda attack in Canada?

Or were you coming to the aid of your great ally to the South?

We're at what? 5,000 dead now in this "War of Terror" that we're waging?

Is that the number?

# of dead pre 911 - Zero
# of dead on 911 - 2,000
# of dead after 911 - Zero
# of dead fighting for resources in Iraq and Afghanistan - 5,000.

Pretty simple numbers.

Peak Oil is the key. If you get Peak Oil, the rest should be obvious . . .

1. Easy to see peaking of oil seen by Bush and Co. in the 90s.
2. Cheney states, "Middle East is the prize" and "we need a new Pearl Harbor," in the late 90s.
3. A new Pearl Harbor occurs soon thereafter.
4. We invade the Middle East soon thereafter.

It's like 4 giant dots running across the blank wall in front of you. A failure to connect the dots is a refusal to acknowledge the plain existence of the dots.

Don't listen to false patriots and Zionists.

False Patriots can't accept, under any circumstances, that people in their own government would put business, control, and money ahead of the lives of its citizens.

Zionists absolutely want the U.S. at war in the Middle East. What better protection for the motherland than the 800 pound gorilla firmly embedded right next door?

911 was the best thing to happen to Israel since Golda Maer.

The U.S. pulling out of Iraq and the Middle East altogether is a worst case scenario for Israel.

Any young person who has joined the military under the canard of "fighting Al Jolson in the middle of nowhere in the War of Terror" has been duped into putting his/her life on the line for nothing.

Anybody in power who knowingly encourages and/or propagates that canard is guilty of both treason and conspiracy to commit murder.

I can forgive the ignorant False Patriots who have been too blinded by a lifetime of being forcefed flags and anthems and Apple Pie to understand the Ruse, but I can't forgive the people in charge who know what's going on.

War for resources. It's that simple.

Addictive drugs, by the way, are fantastic resources - grown cheaply and sold profitably for cash that can easily be laundered. [COC disclaimer - this is not a suggestion to grow or deal drugs, which the author of this post believes you should never do.]

It's funny. They teach you connect the dots when you're a kid, but most people don't want to connect the most obvious dots of all.

I suppose that, if the dots are not numbered by an authority of competent jurisdiction, it's too difficult for most who have been brain washed in the public idiot factories.

[vampyregirl]

My ex boyfriend, My son's father, we are not together anymore but anyway he served with an infantry regiment out of Ottawa. He was involved in a major firefight almost as soon as he arrived in Afghanistan, with armed militants crossing from Pakistan. His unit got more than 80 kills that day.
SO I do have personal knowledge of the mindset of our soldiers. They are fighting for Canada, for the western world and what we believe in. Terrorism, Al Queda, Taliban, radical Islam in general is a great evil that cannot be appeased, it must be fought. Just as Nazi Germany could not be appeased and had to be fought.
Notice I said radical Islam, not Islamics in general. I have Muslim friends and most Muslims do not support the terrorists.
We have stayed out of Iraq and angered the Bush administration in the process. Well fuck them, Canada is not obligated to do the bidding of the American president.
Is Iraq a war for oil? Well Exxon has certainly benefited from it.

Anyway you should honor and respect your servicemen and women even if you disagree with the administration that sent them to war.

[Micki]

My ex boyfriend, My son's father, we are not together anymore but anyway he served with an infantry regiment out of Ottawa. He was involved in a major firefight almost as soon as he arrived in Afghanistan, with armed militants crossing from Pakistan. His unit got more than 80 kills that day.
SO I do have personal knowledge of the mindset of our soldiers. They are fighting for Canada, for the western world and what we believe in. Terrorism, Al Queda, Taliban, radical Islam in general is a great evil that cannot be appeased, it must be fought. Just as Nazi Germany could not be appeased and had to be fought.
Notice I said radical Islam, not Islamics in general. I have Muslim friends and most Muslims do not support the terrorists.
We have stayed out of Iraq and angered the Bush administration in the process. Well Fark them, Canada is not obligated to do the bidding of the American president.
Is Iraq a war for oil? Well Exxon has certainly benefited from it.

Anyway you should honor and respect your servicemen and women even if you disagree with the administration that sent them to war.

That all sounds right if you have formed your world view based on fox news alone.

Just to stick with the official story. 911 hijackers were mainly saudi. Saudia arabia has one of the more extreme versions of Islam, Wahabism, Bin Laden is a Saudi. Shouldn't US invade Saudia Arabia instead of giving Bin Laden family members special flight permissions like after 911? Didn't USA give monetary support to Talibans shortly before 911? If it is such a dispicable group of people that doesn't seem right.
What about pakistan? Weapons of massdestruction, extrimists, even proven links to 911 via money transfers from their intelligenceagency.
And once again, how come noonecared about Rwanda and North Korea was punished with a ban on import of luxury goods.

Brezinski laid it out in his "grand chessboard". Eurasia was the target.
All the administration needed then was the righ kind of "pearl harbour event" to justify the wars and some dubious tapes with a person supposedly being Bin Laden praising the attacks.

[ReverseEngineer]

Zionists absolutely want the U.S. at war in the Middle East. What better protection for the motherland than the 800 pound gorilla firmly embedded right next door?

As usual Cash, you make all the common sense of a Jar Head. On the one hand you make the argument its all about Resources, ALWAYS. But then you go ahead and blame Resource Wars on Zionists? What? How is it the Jews are more resource hungry than anyone else? Besides trying to Intimidate everyone into submission, you pull a typical tactic of placing BLAME on the OTHER. Its an old tactic, and pretty shallow.

EVERYBODY wants their piece of the Earth Pie. "Zionists", "Christians" "Muslims", "Buddhists" call them what you will. You wanna demonize Zionists? Demonize YOURSELF.

Jar Head mentality. Look out for #1, exert FORCE to get what you want. Its a LOSER mentality Cash, and its WHY we are in the situation we are in. Thought process like this is hurtful, it does not bring people TOGETHER to overcome the challenges which lie ahead, it divides us. The attitude makes me want to PUKE.

You are such a big man? Get over it, you can bluster but it is just the kind of behavior that causes self destruction of the species. Its not the "Zionists". Its people like YOU who destroyed the planet. Live with it.

Reverse Engineer

[Cashmere]

Zionists absolutely want the U.S. at war in the Middle East. What better protection for the motherland than the 800 pound gorilla firmly embedded right next door?

As usual Cash, you make all the common sense of a Jar Head. On the one hand you make the argument its all about Resources, ALWAYS. But then you go ahead and blame Resource Wars on Zionists? What? How is it the Jews are more resource hungry than anyone else? Besides trying to Intimidate everyone into submission, you pull a typical tactic of placing BLAME on the OTHER. Its an old tactic, and pretty shallow.

Oh I'm hardly placing the blame for the war in Iraq on Zionists. The blame lies squarely with the citizens of the U.S., who are happy to avoid having to connect their profligate lifestyles with the resource war that is being fought to prop up those lifestyles.

My admonition about Zionists was simply that they cannot be trusted to argue the truth of the reasons for being in Iraq because the truth is directly in contradiction to their main purpose.

I refer directly to the 4 resident Zionists on PO.com.

They are recognizable because they always speak very loudly in favor of all U.S. wars, because they know that U.S. wars are good for Israel.

You wrote:

Jar Head mentality. Look out for #1, exert FORCE to get what you want.

Not sure what you mean by this.

If it was up to me we'd call every U.S. soldier home from every base everywhere in the world TOMORROW, and we wouldn't use force, ever, unless we were attacked.

How that makes me a Jar Head with the loser mentality of using force to get what I want is beyond me.

Care to elucidate? (use as many insults as you deem necessary to make your point, I won't be insulted, and I request that the Mods allow the insults directed at me).

[Cashmere]

My ex boyfriend, My son's father, we are not together anymore but

anyway he served with an infantry regiment out of Ottawa. He was involved in a major

firefight almost as soon as he arrived in Afghanistan, with armed militants crossing from

Pakistan. His unit got more than 80 kills that day.
SO I do have personal knowledge of the mindset of our soldiers. They are fighting for

Canada, for the western world and what we believe in.

No they aren't, unless by "what we believe in" you mean - "our right to control world

resources."

You're repeating the official government line of "why we are there".

Guys wearing towels on their heads in the mountains of Afghanistan are a threat to your

Western way of life in Canada.

Are you serious about that?

Terrorism, Al Queda, Taliban, radical Islam in general is a great evil that cannot be

appeased, it must be fought.

Agreed that people killing each other not in self defense is a horrible crime.

Just as Nazi Germany could not be appeased and had to be fought.

Comparisons to Nazis, in my opinion, should be used with restraint. Guys with towels on

their heads in the mountains of Afghanistan are not in the same universe as Nazis invading

the Rhine.

We have stayed out of Iraq and angered the Bush administration in the process. Well

Fark them, Canada is not obligated to do the bidding of the American president.

That's warm and fuzzy, but completely wrong.

It's all a cover. Canada is obligated to the U.S.. Completely. If you don't think so,

then try to stop selling us NG and oil. Sell it to the Chinese instead.

Canada would cease to exist as a sovereign nation within a week.

Don't confuse these two things . . .

"We deliver the resources the U.S. wants, when it wants, how it wants, so it let's us throw

a hissy fit now and again, like "protesting" the war in Iraq."

and

"We can do what we want, even if it hurts the U.S. economically, and nothing will happen to

us because the U.S. supports our right to disagree completely."


There seems to be a general misunderstanding in Canada about its relationship with the

Empire.

You are allowed to exist as a sovereign country only to the extent that it works well for

the Empire.

It is the complete apogee of naivete to think for a second that the U.S. will not take what

it needs on the day you decide not to give it freely.

Hell, the U.S. was willing to go 1/3 of the way around the world to ensure it could

safeguard the ME oil. You think it's going to let its neighbor dictate terms?


Further, Canada is completely dependent on the U.S. economy, so what is good for the U.S.

economy is good for the Canadian economy, and, conversely, what is bad is bad.

Anyway you should honor and respect your servicemen and women even if you disagree

with the administration that sent them to war.

I don't "honor and respect" them any more than I do anybody else.

I do, however, feel very badly for them, and I sympathize with their families when they are

killed.

[ReverseEngineer]

Care to elucidate? (use as many insults as you deem necessary to make your point, I won't be insulted, and I request that the Mods allow the insults directed at me).

Goes back to a point you made in another thread, regarding intimidation on a "metrodude" in a bar. Then another point about young folks being coddled too much, which actually I agree with mostly.

I am NOT trying to insult you Cash, I am just pointing out what I see as inconsistencies in your posting. If you pick out a group like "Zionists" why do you not also take to task "Christians"? I haven't yet read a post of yours here where you lambast Christians. Are they blameless? Who actually is to blame for outrageous consumption of resources on the planet? You blame Zionists for this? Why do you finger Zionists in your posting? Is anyone to blame really? And even if you CAN put a finger on blaming a particular group, is that productive toward resolving the problems?

You wanna pull out of Iraq, I think to "consolidate" the problem here within the US, resolve that one. But how then do you resolve the inequity WITHIN our own society? Who do you "Blame" in this one? Ilegal Aliens? Blacks? Jews?

Show me the equity in your means and methods. Show me how what you believe can rectify the errors we have made to date. Is force the only answer, or is it an answer at all? Does forcing a metrodude into embarassment really solve anything, or does it just divide and subjugate?

Reverse Engineer

[vampyregirl]

My ex boyfriend, My son's father, we are not together anymore but anyway he served with an infantry regiment out of Ottawa. He was involved in a major firefight almost as soon as he arrived in Afghanistan, with armed militants crossing from Pakistan. His unit got more than 80 kills that day.
SO I do have personal knowledge of the mindset of our soldiers. They are fighting for Canada, for the western world and what we believe in. Terrorism, Al Queda, Taliban, radical Islam in general is a great evil that cannot be appeased, it must be fought. Just as Nazi Germany could not be appeased and had to be fought.
Notice I said radical Islam, not Islamics in general. I have Muslim friends and most Muslims do not support the terrorists.
We have stayed out of Iraq and angered the Bush administration in the process. Well Fark them, Canada is not obligated to do the bidding of the American president.
Is Iraq a war for oil? Well Exxon has certainly benefited from it.

Anyway you should honor and respect your servicemen and women even if you disagree with the administration that sent them to war.

That all sounds right if you have formed your world view based on fox news alone.

Just to stick with the official story. 911 hijackers were mainly saudi. Saudia arabia has one of the more extreme versions of Islam, Wahabism, Bin Laden is a Saudi. Shouldn't US invade Saudia Arabia instead of giving Bin Laden family members special flight permissions like after 911? Didn't USA give monetary support to Talibans shortly before 911? If it is such a dispicable group of people that doesn't seem right.
What about pakistan? Weapons of massdestruction, extrimists, even proven links to 911 via money transfers from their intelligenceagency.
And once again, how come noonecared about Rwanda and North Korea was punished with a ban on import of luxury goods.

Brezinski laid it out in his "grand chessboard". Eurasia was the target.
All the administration needed then was the righ kind of "pearl harbour event" to justify the wars and some dubious tapes with a person supposedly being Bin Laden praising the attacks.

For your infromation we don't get Fox news in Canada. And i don't like Bush, thought i'd already made that clear. I am a Canadian patriot and I support our service men and women. Our refusal to join in the Iraq war angered the Bush administration and led to frosty relations between the US and Canada. But we had our reasons. As for the reasons why Bush and Co do whatever they do I will leave for you to decide.