[MrBean]

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259

[TheDude]

Great article. Dmitri has an excellent book out as well: Reinventing Collapse.

Review of Dmitry Orlov's Re-inventing Collapse | Energy Bulletin

Think Doom or Collapse is unpalatable to Amerikanz in the modern USSA? Try telling them we're less prepared than the Soviets were! Orlov convinced me in short order, though. It's resilience vs. complexity, as described by among others Thomas Homer-Dixon.

[TreebeardsUncle]

Yes. America is much less well prepared than the SU was for collapse.
In fact folks here much less prepared than they were during the GD or anytime previous to that.
g

[drgoodword]

Yes. America is much less well prepared than the SU was for collapse.
In fact folks here much less prepared than they were during the GD or anytime previous to that.
g

As a poster noted a couple of years ago on another board in a discussion of peak oil, "the softest generation ever raised in America is about to be thrown to the wolves."

So true.

[nobodypanic]

'less prepared' stems from the fact that capitalism while far far more efficient than communism is, because of it's very efficiency, less redundant and therefore less resilient to shocks of these magnitudes.

[mos6507]

The soviets faced a temporary blip, not permanent peak oil in the global sense. There are just too many indirect inputs from energy-rich regions that help prop up energy starved regions. Take North Korea for instance. As bad as it is, it is sucking at the teat of China and blackmailing the west with nukes for oil to avoid outright die-off. There is no true precedence in history to use as a model to know what global peak oil will do long term.

[Buggy]

Very astute. We have created elegant beautifully engineered living machine powered, greased, painted, and puffed up with cheap petroleum.

I love that quote!!!! I walk some hallowed halls where I work that you have just perfectly described.

[Revi]

I read Dmitry Orlov's Reinventing Collapse. It is a really good book, and gets you thinking. The Russians had one thing we don't and that is the right to stay in their apartments and houses. When we lose ours, that's it. We're homeless. There will be a lot of people without anywhere to live soon.

I do think that we will figure out ways of surviving. Americans are very inventive. We'll find ways of doing things.

I do think it will be really bad here. I liked the way that he described the situation as it changed in Russia.

The government got more and more dysfunctional, and made things worse. I expect the same here.

[TheDude]

I read Dmitry Orlov's Reinventing Collapse. It is a really good book, and gets you thinking. The Russians had one thing we don't and that is the right to stay in their apartments and houses.

Only one? Crude but sturdy appliances, tradition of hard work/growing one's own food/living in close proximity in robustly built concrete architecture/widely available electric powered mass transit...the list was quite long, and when he brought up things Americans might have in their favor it seemed more like damning with faint praise.

Do agree that we'll muddle through. We could build our own sturdy concrete houses, for instance, been reading about that in The Good Life, by Helen and Scott Nearing.

[cube]

I read Dmitry Orlov's Reinventing Collapse. It is a really good book, and gets you thinking. The Russians had one thing we don't and that is the right to stay in their apartments and houses.

Only one? Crude but sturdy appliances, tradition of hard work/growing one's own food/living in close proximity in robustly built concrete architecture/widely available electric powered mass transit...the list was quite long, and when he brought up things Americans might have in their favor it seemed more like damning with faint praise.

I might as well add another item to the list.
One of the "advantages" Russia had is that life has ALWAYS been hard.
If you look at the darkest days of Russian history you'll see people resorting to cannibalism just to stay alive. *no exaggeration*
The battle of Stalingrad during WW2 is a prime example.

Even countries that are normally associated with "the good life" had it much worse then the USA.
During the 100 years war, France at it's lowest point was 1/3 occupied by a foreign power while the other 1/3, sensing imminent defeat decide to join the other side!
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
You know things are getting pretty bad when the ONLY thing standing between total defeat and salvation is a silly teenage girl in command of an army who sees hallucinating visions of God commanding her to save the nation!

Now lets compare that to America.
The worst thing that ever happened to an American was that he lost money in the stock market back in 1929 and had to put on a warm sweater during those cold winters.
boo hoo cry me a river!
We can see this soft and squishy behavior reveal itself today.
Notice how Americans use words like "crisis" to describe ridiculously small events, like when gasoline goes up by 50 cents a gallon or food goes up by 20%.
Americans had it too easy. We are not prepared to even take one step down the ladder let alone 3, 5, 10 steps down or however how far down PO will take us.

[MadScientist]

I liked this piece.

He did give the US a hard time, and while I don't think it's totally deserved, we really do need a wakeup call so I dont mind the criticism.

True, the US has had it really really easy for our lifetimes. Usually when I'm with someone who starts getting on my nerves from bitching about something they need or how bad they want something I look at them directly and ask if they've ever been hungry. And they of course say "yeah, I only had a sandwich for dinner one time". And then I reply "no, I mean HUNGRY. Like days with out any food at all." And then they look at me like I'm mad....


However, there is backbone in America that although hidden under fat right now, will be revealed. We are the descendants of an incredibly capable group of people.

[Keith_McClary]

However, there is backbone in America that although hidden under fat right now, will be revealed. We are the descendants of an incredibly capable group of people.

As are the Greeks, Romans, Mayans, Cambodians, Mongolians, Peruvians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Iranians ... (edit) and Zimbabweans.

[TreebeardsUncle]

So, when does it start?

The government in the US is already behaving in a counter-productive manner by maintaining the oil-powered credit-enhanced suburbanizing machine going stronger and longer than it naturally should.
g

[Pretorian]

I've seen Americans putting a bottle opener in a dishwasher after they open 1 beer. They are hopeless.

[ReverseEngineer]

Now lets compare that to America.
The worst thing that ever happened to an American was that he lost money in the stock market back in 1929 and had to put on a warm sweater during those cold winters.
boo hoo cry me a river!
We can see this soft and squishy behavior reveal itself today.
Notice how Americans use words like "crisis" to describe ridiculously small events, like when gasoline goes up by 50 cents a gallon or food goes up by 20%.
Americans had it too easy. We are not prepared to even take one step down the ladder let alone 3, 5, 10 steps down or however how far down PO will take us.

I trust you do not think of YOURSELF as one of those "squisy Americans". But you ARE an American, now aren't you? do you presuppose that there are not others like you?

Granted, on a social level the cultue we developed here has led to a lot of squishiness. However, its always been true that many here live on the periphery and KNOW how to survive.

Many died in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many will die in our own collapse. In both cases, some will survive.

You survive by your wits and by your ingenuity. You take nothing for granted, things you believe are true based on the old system really are not true. You find a way OUT.

You wait for it to happen, you are guaranteed to be toast. Be Proactive. Make the CHOICES you need to make, in TIME. Before your are TRAPPED.

Get OUT. RUN AWAY. RUN AWAY FAST. Your life and the life of your loved ones depends on it. Make no mistake about that. If you are soft, you will DIE, and quickly. You do not HAVE to be that way though, even though as a culture and society we have become soft. You as an individual do not have to be so.

Reverse Engineer

[Zero-point]

Yes. America is much less well prepared than the SU was for collapse.
In fact folks here much less prepared than they were during the GD or anytime previous to that.
g

You do know that the Soviet Union collapse was engineered by such NGO's as the Trilateral Commission right?

What does the collapse supposedly have to do with peak oil (which I don't believe but that's another topic)?

[cube]

Now lets compare that to America.
The worst thing that ever happened to an American was that he lost money in the stock market back in 1929 and had to put on a warm sweater during those cold winters.
boo hoo cry me a river!
...

I trust you do not think of YOURSELF as one of those "squisy Americans". But you ARE an American, now aren't you? do you presuppose that there are not others like you?

Okay I admit it.
I enjoy having 3 full meals a day and a warm bed during the winter.
I like my beer cold and my showers hot, so I guess that makes me "squishy".
however.....
What separates me from 90% of everybody else is I know the future will steadily move downhill.

But we are at such a high position now, even if we drop by 50% life can still offer a respectable standard of living.
In a PO world you can still have cold beers and hot showers but you will be sharing a 750 sq ft apartment unit with your wife and 2 kids instead of living in a 2,400 sq ft house today.
BTW 2,400 sq ft that was the average house size built in 2006 at the pinnacle of the housing boom.

My vision of PO sees a severely reduced standard of living that will predate 1950's levels.
But that does not mean a Planet of the Apes scenario.

[Sys1]

USSR collapsed because of cheap oil, USA will collapse because of expensive oil, this is the main difference.