[desultorypawn]

looking forward to the replies on this.

[Pretorian]

you should. Just sell your visible assets before you do that.

[SILENTTODD]

I would stay debt free.

[Carlhole]

I've been wanting solar panels but it's hard for me to come off that kind of money while unemployed. I estimate about $5-6000 would provide enough power to go off-grid.

If I don't plan to use credit for anything anyway why should I care about my credit rating? Why shouldn't I just withdraw my money, stuff it in the mattress, buy the solar panels with my credit card, default on the credit card and declare bankruptcy?

Sounds like your credit is good.

Most people would take a low interest mortgage loan, adding the solar panels to the house to increase its value. You can deduct mortgage debt if you happen to owe any taxes.

If you begin using the panels instead of the grid right away, you can start subtracting your energy savings from the mortgage expense. I guess that's where the rubber meets the road -- how much are you going to save overall? How long before the solar panels pay for themselves?

[alokin]

I am against taking credits, it reduces your freedom, but some things don't go without and in the US the interests are low.

We have in Australia grants for solar panels and there are communities which buy solar panels together and get them cheaper, forgot the name. Maybe you have the same in your region and if not it's easy to set up.

[MrBill]

baha, my reply is not refering to you specifically

The sooner the common man defaults on his debts the sooner we will return to a cash society where only those with money will be able to borrow money, and where you will need money to make money. Cash will be king and we will return to The Golden Rule. So go ahead and stick it to the man. It was a mistake in the first place to assume the common man could handle credit responsibly.

[pup55]

buy the solar panels with my credit card, default on the credit card and declare bankruptcy?

About 4 years ago a similar conversation came up on PO.com, and I gave one suggestion, which was, that when you sign the credit card statement, it sometimes says something to the effect of "I agree to abide by the cardholder agreement", which means, in essence, that you have given your word to pay that money back.

So, the question becomes, "why should you keep your word?"

At the time, it was pointed out that the credit card companies use a variety of questionably moral tactics to get people to borrow, the corporations that thrive because of the widespread use of consumer credit have already written into the system an allowance for people who just walk away from their loans and are still immorally profitable, and there are a lot of compelling reasons for sticking it to the man, namely because "the man" is an asshole.

So, I am swayed slightly on this issue.

You still have to ask the question, though, what does it say about somebody's character if they flagrantly do not keep their word? Even worse, if they get into a transaction fraudulently in which they have no intention from the beginning of paying the thing back? Does this not bother anybody?

The "planning for the future" people that inhabit this site all the time point out that at some point in the day, it makes sense to surround yourself with a network of people that you can trust, so as to make everyones' survival easier. Question: If you are living next to someone with stolen solar panels, should you necessarily trust them? Is their sense of ethics situational enough that at some point, they might stick it to you, if it suited them? At what point do you become "the man".

At the end of the day, I still have to say that deliberately charging stuff up on your credit card and taking a hike is "wrong", and on that basis, you should probably not do it. If you want solar panels, do what is "right" and save up your nickels and get some. I will feel better about living next to you.

Call me eccentric. I must be getting old or something.

[MrBill]

I remember in the small town where I grew up the merchants used to keep bounced cheques under the glass on the countertop, so all the customers could see who's cheques were good and who's weren't. Name and shame. Of course, no one has any shame anymore, so quite obviously they have no honor either. So it is back to the only way we can act around such people. Trust is good. Control is better.

[ReverseEngineer]

4 years is a mighty long time to be unemployed and still free of debt. That in itself is an amazing accomplishment.

I would not start charging the cards until you are 99% sure that the bank holding the card itself will go bankrupt. You are playing a game of Chicken here, if you do it too soon, you could end up with the system still working well enough to divest you of what you actually own to pay off the debts you incur. Wait too long, the credit line will be shut off, and the products you might buy with the credit won't be available to buy.

Wait until the last minute you think it is going cataclysmic. Then head out and charge it all to the MAX, as fast as possible. Then burn the cards, call up the Credit Card company and say they were Stolen, you know nothing about those purchases. At that point, if they even have staff to follow up on any of this it would be a miracle.

Meanwhile, until the catclysm is immenent, play it close to the vest and stay out of debt as long as you can.

Reverse Engineer

[kpeavey]

15 years ago I was in a bad situation and filed bankruptcy. Just before I filed, I took the credit cards, went on a shopping spree. Clothes, tools, appliances, a heck of a night on the town.

Cash in the bank is all well and good as long as the banks are open and functioning. Cash under the mattress sure can be handy. How much do you lose in interest taking some of that money and moving it from the bank to the bed? Maybe you are getting 5% return on a savings or checking account. After taxes, you are looking at more like 3%, and thats if you are doing well. It's chump change.

At this point I think the investment is not worth the risk. I keep enough money in the bank to keep the account open and allow me to cash a check if need be.

[Leanan]

Don't do it.

If you don't pay, they can put a lien on your house and/or take your bank accounts. They can also garnish your wages, should you resume working.

You have more to lose than to gain.

[pup55]

For those who wish to bring the system to its knees, a possible alternative might be to do what we do at our house.....

We charge up literally everything (I use very little cash) and then pay it all off at the end of the month. Typically, the balance is on the order of a couple of thousand, by the time the family charges everything up. You pay it off, there is no interest, no fees, etc. This is apparently not uncommon, and about 30% of the cardholders do this.

So we have use of this money interest-free, thus allowing us to exploit the credit card company for something on the order of $500 per year (given some modest interest assumptions). Plus, we have the type of credit cards that give frequent flyer miles, giving us an occasional free trip on the struggling airlines. Undoubtedly there are some system and transaction costs that are buried in the pricing for what I buy, but that is probably minor and supported mostly by the Americans who are dutifully running up their balances and taking care of the rest of us.

So, who is sticking it to whom?

Apparently, the card companies hate this so much that some of these people have instituted fees for those who pay off their cards every month.


Link

Apparently the average CC balance in the US is $6800, but according to other sources, 40% of the cardholders have less than $1000 balance, which means that the remaining consumers are supporting the whole structure.

[MrBill]

Up, down, I will not frown ‘cuz credit is fraught.
While economy grows quick, pay high and job safe,
My investments propagate, while I sit and wait.
The top is when guys like me fright take,
Top to bottom worth waiting for its own sake.
Those in debt lose what they thought bought,
Their creditors chase them around the block.
Many without any savings skimp by ad hoc,
Those fire sale prices are knocked down a lot.
Buy low, sell high, love life and see it is a crock.

[Concerned]

baha, my reply is not refering to you specifically

The sooner the common man defaults on his debts the sooner we will return to a cash society where only those with money will be able to borrow money, and where you will need money to make money. Cash will be king and we will return to The Golden Rule. So go ahead and stick it to the man. It was a mistake in the first place to assume the common man could handle credit responsibly.

One of the most unintelligent things I have read. Yet another tragic reason why "the system" WILL FAIL

[MrBill]

Unlike all your brilliant insights, Concerned? HAHA!

[Ferretlover]

If I don't plan to use credit for anything anyway why should I care about my credit rating?

Because, at the moment, the US runs on the credit ratings. A lot is tied to it: car insurance, health plans (somewhere I read where clinics check your scores before adding you to their patient list), etc.
And, as if that wasn't bad enough, what concerns me is what TPTB are planning to put in its place to further control money movement and asset acquistions.
IMHO, while it is extremely frustrating to be caught up in the games that Big Business and the Government play, I think it is more important not to get put on any more lists if you can avoid it.

[Tyler_JC]

Get a job and pay for the solar panels in cash if you don't want to get into debt.

Or get a job and qualify for a low interest HELOC.

But I don't see how you can support yourself and pay your bills without a regular income.