[Sixstrings]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 44,00.html

Some quotes from this main stream media piece:

" In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism have shattered. "

"Nothing will be like it was before," said James Allroy, a broker who was brooding over his chai latte at a Starbucks on Wall Street. "The world as we know it is going down."

"Many are drawing comparisons with the Great Depression, the national trauma that has been the benchmark for everything since. "I think it has the chance to be the worst period of time since 1929," financing legend Donald Trump told CNN.

"The only thing that is certain is that the era of the unbridled free-market economy in the US has passed -- at least for now. The near nationalization of AIG, America's largest insurance company, with an $85 billion cash infusion -- a bill footed by taxpayers -- was a staggering move."

"I don't know what else to say," stammered one broker, who was consoling himself with white wine

[The_Virginian]

When Der Spiegel prints it....the world has woken up...

Thank you for the link. "depressing" (pardon the pun) as it is to see trump yapping "I think it has the chance to be the worst period of time since 1929," financing legend Donald Trump told CNN"

"the window" is right on target.

[socrates1fan]

Hmm,

I've been growing more concerned with each day about the economy.
Others seem so unaware but the older folks are getting the message.
One woman told me it feels like the depression sort of.
I found this shocking. I was raised in a time of the Clintons. A time of good economic days. The past years have been so different for this country. I feel 9/11 marked the end of the Clinton era.
I still see prices get higher, the dollar weaken, and people becoming frantic about their situations.
People can only stretch so far. I am so very content to not be in that city I used to of such poor economic shape.
I can only imagine how awful it must be now.

[mark]

For the last week it's been one disaster after another, followed by more media bullshit than ever.

This ain't it.

This is garden variety disaster. The boyz with the money know how to handle financial disasters. It's the Black Swans that'll get us. No one can see them coming. No one will know what to do. And everything that is done will be a mistake.

That will be the end.

[POAlex]

Things may be shaky but not hopeless.

Alex

[The_Virginian]

1929 was not the "end of the world"

Just the end of the "good times"...for a long time.

[Snowrunner]

1929 was not the "end of the world"

Just the end of the "good times"...for a long time.

True, but the amount of people directly affected where a lot smaller than it is today.

I also think that the political climate was a lot less divided than it is today (in the US).

As such... The way this may play out this time I am not sure.

I am north of the border, and I have watching this with a feeling of unease too. Nothing REALLY bad has happened up here as of yet, and the fast melt down in the US economy may actually (politically) end up benefitting Canada in the upcoming election, but I am not so sure that if the US goes down the crapper there won't be a mass migration happening up north. This is, actually, already partially happening, there was a piece a few months ago about Mexican refugees ending up in Windsor etc. and I noticed an increase in Mexican construction workers here in Vancouver.

Sooner or later even the laziest "native" US Citizens will contemplate "going north" and I doubt there is anything that could prevent that from happening.

[AgentR]

Maybe it is doom, I dunno... but.

Its smelling more to me like, "Frak! I ended up holding a $500k position in AIG, and the feds aren't gonna make me whole!"; turns to typewriter:

DOOM DOOM I SAY
(pay me)
DOOM DOOM I SAY!
(pay me!)
DOOOM
DIDN"T YOU HEAR ME! I SAID DOOM!!

acct: xyzpdq routing 1234 please notify on transmission of funds....

ie: Certain pigs got stuck. They squeal. Alot.
Kinda how the world works.

[Sixstrings]

"Its smelling more to me like, "Frak! I ended up holding a $500k position in AIG, and the feds aren't gonna make me whole!""

I tend to agree with you AgentR. The feeling I get is that the stockholding rich, bold and beautiful are sticking their hands out for what really amounts to government welfare.

I'd guess most capitalist types realize these government interventions are game-changing and spell more problems long term, but on the other hand, if free money is to be had how can they say no?

I think for his part Bernanke, a great depression scholar, is determined to take steps that were *not* taken at the onset of the last great depression.

But a cursory study of the Japanese government response during their lost decade proves these massive market interventions ultimately futile. Japan's efforts to fight a financial crisis ended up cranking their national debt to somewhere in the region of 197% of their GDP. We have a ways to go for those levels, I think we're somewhere around 39% of our GDP (lower than most countries in Europe).

What really galls me though is how quickly the republicons have embraced the socialist business model -- while denying socialism for the unwashed masses (guaranteed health care, consumer protection, worker's rights).

What utter, putrid hypocrisy it is to say socialism is A-OK for your stock portfolio but not for my healthcare.

As for the Der Spiegel article, from the various reading I've done I think the Europeans are a bit shocked at our strong socialist swings over these past few days. For years, America, brazenly proud capitalist beacon of the world has decried such things. I read an article where politicians in France are citing the Fed's recent actions as vindication of their own protectionist government-industry meddlings.

Am I the only person who sees the hypocrisy in republicons going on about a "government takerover of healthcare," when they're now baling out fat cats left and right?

I don't like this new direction we're going, in a capitalist system government should be the referee, not Mommy Dearest. With the kingly powers that be now waving a magic wand saving some here, some there, letting some fail over there -- this turns our market system into nothing but a casino with crooked croupiers. This new paradigm renders longterm investments pointless, since nobody knows the rules now. Corporations will no longer rise and fall on their merits, as the unknowable political connections they have are now such a huge factor.

In addition, these big business bailouts will only buy more time. The little guy will get hurt more, as more money cannot be printed without raising inflation. Pumping the presses and snowblowing cash all over Wall Street really only makes the bubble, and eventual pop, worse.

To sum it all up.. if French style socialism on steroids is where we're heading, then I say at least give us common folk the other goodies of socialism. If you must save the fat cats, give me my guaranteed health care, 4 day workweek and 2 month vacations.

[The_Virginian]

1929 was not the "end of the world"

Just the end of the "good times"...for a long time.

True, but the amount of people directly affected where a lot smaller than it is today.

I also think that the political climate was a lot less divided than it is today (in the US).

As such... The way this may play out this time I am not sure.

I am north of the border, and I have watching this with a feeling of unease too. Nothing REALLY bad has happened up here as of yet, and the fast melt down in the US economy may actually (politically) end up benefitting Canada in the upcoming election, but I am not so sure that if the US goes down the crapper there won't be a mass migration happening up north. This is, actually, already partially happening, there was a piece a few months ago about Mexican refugees ending up in Windsor etc. and I noticed an increase in Mexican construction workers here in Vancouver.

Sooner or later even the laziest "native" US Citizens will contemplate "going north" and I doubt there is anything that could prevent that from happening.

Canada can "close it's borders" if it wished...and it yet may. ( Closed boarders = denying illegals employment, not physically locking down the deep woods. )

Mexicans are having a harder time in the US despite the rhetoric.
Bet. increased enforcement and harder times...they will do what it takes to feed their families...

Was in Toronto last September...nice city...skipped the Detriot/windsor traffic on drive up the queens HWY.