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Hadron Collider near Geneva: Big Bang machine Kaput

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby FreedomSlave » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 15:20:20

At least we cannot be sucked into a REAL blackhole...

but this last week has shown we can/will get sucked into an economic one. :twisted:
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby Triffin » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 16:19:11

Uh-Oh ... mini black hole eats magnet ... yum !!

Triff ..
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby kpeavey » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 20:11:41

I am somehow reminded of T S Eliot
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.


The Hollow Men
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
_____

twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby Sys1 » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 07:55:19

The more something is complex, the more it's subject to failure.
I was pretty annoyed by LHC RAP on youtube. Those scientifics were so proud of themselves, so arrogant. Now, they will shut up and try to fix their big bang machine.
At least, we won't be sucked in a black hole for the coming months :-)
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 08:45:44

Sys1 wrote:The more something is complex, the more it's subject to failure.
I was pretty annoyed by LHC RAP on youtube. Those scientifics were so proud of themselves, so arrogant. Now, they will shut up and try to fix their big bang machine.
At least, we won't be sucked in a black hole for the coming months :-)

If they fail to repair it, or if shortly after that is done there is another failure and so on, then that is an end of further progress in high energy physics.
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby Sys1 » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 11:52:42

EnergyUnlimited : I think you are right. From what I read, it seems that scientists need this machine to go further in fundamental reaserch. They are looking for the Higgs boson. Don't ask me what is a boson or who is Higg, but if they don't find that, I suspect they will be pretty disappointed...
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Re: Big Bang machine Kaput

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 12:51:36

Sys1 wrote:EnergyUnlimited : I think you are right. From what I read, it seems that scientists need this machine to go further in fundamental reaserch. They are looking for the Higgs boson. Don't ask me what is a boson or who is Higg, but if they don't find that, I suspect they will be pretty disappointed...

Higgs boson is a particle of quantum field (so called Higs field) responsible of impairing so called rest mass to other elementary particles.
Particles, which are not interacting with Higgs field (eg foton) are devoid of rest mass. Such particles must propagate in vacuum with speed of light.

Above is required to exist to satisfy so-called Standard Model, most successful albeit quite inelegant theory of particle physics.

Failure to produce Higgs boson would suggest that Standard Model is wrong, so there may be other, more fundamental physics to be discovered.

In fact many physicists are *wishing* for that to be the case.
They don't like that there is several constants in Standard Model, which have to accepted as true, but no reasoning *why* these constants should assume observed values is given.

They hope, that LHC will help them to go beyond Standard Model and help do discover more fundamental physics.

There are various risks regarding these experiments, albeit my understanding of the subject is that probability of these to materialize is incredibly low (but higher than zero).
Nevertheless outcomes could be very interesting, if one of these by some miracle materialized.

You have mentioned *stable BH*.

However there are also other risks.

For example these experiments could unleash so called *space inflation*.
That would be indefinitely more dangerous than inflation, which could be caused by your LDP (Large Dollar Printer).
Chance of survival of such event (for man, Earth or Sun, doesn't matter) are literally equaling zero.

Another possibility is setting off so called *quantum vacuum phase transition*.
Good news here are that our energy problems could be resolved here for good and that is because resulting blast would probably unleash more energy than entire visible Universe contains.
Laws of physics would be abruptly changed in the process, matter as we know it would cease to exist, existing structure of Universe would be destroyed and few other extremely interesting things would happen but unfortunately there would be no observers left to admire results.

Other more boring possibilities are involving stable *negative charged strange matter* formation.
For all practical purposes result would be very much like in BH scenario, but final product of collapse of Earth would be less dense than BH, albeit not bigger than baseball ball.
Entire process of Earth contraction could take between days and thousands of years, so we would be allowed to appreciate, what we have done.
Cause of death of last humans would be related to extensive earthquicks. :)
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