[seahorse]

In another thread, I agreed with Roccman that this current economic crisis was engineered by the investment bankers as an economic "smash and grab" at the end of Bush' presidency. I made a post explaining my reasoning on another forum, but have not been able to paste it here for some reason. All I can do is link it. I would like for people here to read it and see if they agree based on the facts that I have put forth. There is always a lot of supposition in any theory, but I believe there are enough facts to make the argument that this was an engineered crisis to occur at the end of Bush presidency and raid the tax coffers.

Here's the post:

Crisis was engineered

[vision-master]

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic45876.html

[Roccland]

More specifically - and this is where you and I SH are greatly divided-

911 was engineered by the same group who brought us this systemic collapse of the financial world to militarily control the golden triangle...because of the onset of PO. "A new Pearl Harbor is needed"...(PNAC).

and as you and I agree...

The housing market was the trigger and fuse engineered by these same people lit in the same 3-5 year period that PO occurred to usher in economic collapse.

The thesis would go something like this...

"They" know about overshoot and peak everything..."they" know that declining net energy would usher in economic collapse...all "they" did was set it to happen on "their" terms.

Bumbling idiots "they" are not.

Without hijacking your thread SH - 47 story buildings just do not drop out of the sky...it does not happen.

Next phase - martial law...AT THE BEGGING OF THE AMERIKAN PEOPLE.

Then die off as written on the Georgia Guidestones.

[seahorse]

Rocc, you may see divison where there may not be one. I'm still open on 9-11. When I come to an opinion, for my own sake, I try to finalize my thoughts in writing like I did on the above link arguing this bailout was a preplanned disaster.

As for 9-11, I have played the devil's advocate because I'm still undecided, which means, I'm still open to evidence. As my 9-11 post show, its not enough to raise questions about the official version for me. Without digressing to a 9-11 discussion here, I would just defer to previous questions I raised, all that to say, I haven't come to a firm conclusion.

I have concluded, though, that this economic crisis was engineered and I believe we have enough evidence as citizens to come to that conclusion and know who to jail for it.

[Roccland]

I have concluded, though, that this economic crisis was engineered and I believe we have enough evidence as citizens to come to that conclusion and know who to jail for it.

How is it SH that in a much shorter period of time for a much much more complex problem you are satisfied with the evidence, but for a much much simplier event where the evidence is much much more clear and available for a much longer period of time...you are still undecided.

THIS is precisely why I started the thread a few days ago about 911 denialist QUICKLY buying into a conspiracy on the economic collapse occuring now.

Your argument is weak.

That said - I will not hijack this thread...with 911 discussion...

If you ask a question or raise an issue I will respond however in an effort to maintain integrity to my thesis.

And that thesis is: 911 and this economic collapse were planned by the same people to reach a goal of depopulating the planet and enslaving those who remain.

[mos6507]

And that thesis is: 911 and this economic collapse were planned by the same people to reach a goal of depopulating the planet and enslaving those who remain.

Makes for a good pulp novel, but you are wrong.

[Carlhole]

And that thesis is: 911 and this economic collapse were planned by the same people to reach a goal of depopulating the planet and enslaving those who remain.

Makes for a good pulp novel, but you are wrong.

You know, this whole Iraq drama has yet to play out.

The fact of the matter: the 200+ billion barrels of oil lying beneath Iraq's sands is increasing in strategic and economic value much faster than the debt is piling on. Because the value of the oil represents survival itself.

It is very interesting to see just what the international fall-out from this bailout package will be - whether or not credit markets stabilize. And it will be very interesting to see how this economic crisis will affect Iraq policy.

I keep wondering if some broad energy/financial agreement between China and the US will be in the offing. China has all those immense dollar reserves and has lending muscle. While the US has its military and its presence in Iraq.

A broad energy agreement could conceivably include Chinese troops stationed in Iraq as well -- but only if America's back is up against the wall. And it really does look like the US simpoly MUST reach a deal regarding energy somehow in the very near future.

I have always thought that the US would occupy Iraq and, once it was stabilized, would call for a Global Energy Summit. Such a summit would decide how development would continue, decide on shared energy R&D, perhaps even some currency standardization.

[jupiters_release]

Property, resource, and wealth consolidation of this scale doesn't happen by luck or accident. If we were central bankers we'd do the exact same thing, business is most profitable in a fixed system, therefore they should rig the economy as much as possible and looking at the current situation obviously they've done an excellent job.

The central bankers' strategy is analogous to that of a master of martial arts. For public eyes, the former pretends to be bankrupt just as the latter can easily appear weak. The common american would never recognize the potential of a real master, especially one who has no desire for status, conversely these bankers have enough common sense to know it's not a good idea to let everyone know where all their wealth is being transferred to.

[dukey]

wow a forum called doomers.us
lol
and yeah of course the crash was planned
JP Morgan seems to be doing EXTREMELY well from this little economic hiccup .. lol

[countrygal]

And that thesis is: 911 and this economic collapse were planned by the same people to reach a goal of depopulating the planet and enslaving those who remain.

Makes for a good pulp novel, but you are wrong.

That's a good shill, Mos.

You are wrong.

[countrygal]

There are more non-illuminati banks that need to crash though, before they can tank the market by tightening credit.

If they tighten credit now the large independance would spoil some profit.

[mos6507]

That's a good shill, Mos.

You are wrong.

Why is that? You can follow this crisis all the way back to its source. There is nothing conspiratorial at work here. Just the usual outcome of unrestrained greed and risktaking at many levels, all the way from the banks and wallstreet down through the real estate industry down to the individual house flippers. People who are searching for a scapegoat just don't want to come to terms with the flaws in human nature.

I mean, you'd think a peak oiler would get the big picture that everybody is an active participant in the system. The impact of 6.7 billion people's decisions is quite staggering. We all do our part in the grand game of the tragedy of the commons. Too many people trying to scapegoat so they can drive their SUVs to starbucks for a $5 latte and not feel guilty. It's all fatalism for the sake of avoiding personal responsibility. The engine of modern life includes all the wheels including you and me. You want to earn some respect, go drop out of the "system" and live in an earthship. Whining on a worldesnd doesn't cut it.

[jbrovont]

Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney et. al. ca. 1997 "We need to blow some sh*t up in a serious way to get the American people behind attacking Iraq and Afghanistan." (PNAC summary re. "New Pearl Harbor")

ca. 2001: Some sh*t gets blown up in a serious way under the same watch.

Not exactly an open and shut case, but if someone makes a public statement "I want to cause a disaster," and then it happens while they're in the vicinity, fitting the publically stated desired outcome...usually it causes a prudent mind to have some questions.

At the very least, it's a slam dunk for "motive."

Means and opportunity?

That's a good shill, Mos.

You are wrong.

Why is that? You can follow this crisis all the way back to its source. There is nothing conspiratorial at work here. Just the usual outcome of unrestrained greed and risktaking at many levels, all the way from the banks and wallstreet down through the real estate industry down to the individual house flippers. People who are searching for a scapegoat just don't want to come to terms with the flaws in human nature.

I mean, you'd think a peak oiler would get the big picture that everybody is an active participant in the system. The impact of 6.7 billion people's decisions is quite staggering. We all do our part in the grand game of the tragedy of the commons. Too many people trying to scapegoat so they can drive their SUVs to starbucks for a $5 latte and not feel guilty. The engine of modern life includes all the wheels including you and me.

[TheDude]

The fact of the matter: the 200+ billion barrels of oil lying beneath Iraq's sands is increasing in strategic and economic value much faster than the debt is piling on. Because the value of the oil represents survival itself.

Iraq has 32-70 mb of reserves, depending on which figure you choose to believe. IHS have made claims backing up the revisions Saddam made in the late 80s and then some; proof's in the pudding. Most productive field due to come on stream is Majnoon in 2011 at 250 kb/d, a year after the world is due to peak. You think the place is violent now, wait until it becomes ground zero for resource grabs by the world's major military forces. And as it stands it's plenty violent enough to make doing business there quite risky: from 3 hours ago: 12 people killed in Baghdad car bomb attack.

The neocons' erosion of civil liberties still lacks adequate explanation from any mainstream commentator. What does removal of posse commitatus have to do with crony capitalism? I agree with seahorse that the economic unwind is a more than succinct way to deal with depleting oil supply, which is a reality that doesn't need any stretch of the imagination or fantastic theorizing to account for. The Patriot act and signing statement provisos all clearly point to a neocon desire to cope with coming civil unrest of large proportions. If you think they're just concerned with the potential threat of terror then I at your naivety.

Why not set up mandates in 2002 to build an EV fleet and just forget about ME shennanigans? Why not crony capitalism and draconian measures? They could've bailed out Lehman if they felt buddy buddy to the core for all capitalists.

[countrygal]

They bail out those loyal to their cuae, the competition must tank.
When the smoke clears next year, the mobfia will own everything.
You can't crash the markets until the reins of the monetary system are tight, or the horse will get away from you.
In 1929, the collapse was implemented only when all the banks were on one line. then, they tightened loans and everyone died, and the big boys swept the pot off the table and owned much property. You can't pull that off until major independants like WAMU are removed, they were a huge non mobfia lender and could have actually pulled us out of a stock market crash. Now, it is doubtful america can recover when the credit tightens jointly.

I would say collapse feb march 2009. May, everyone defaults and economy tanks.