[ReverseEngineer]

I'm curious if anyone here has any ideas how to Reboot once the CDS market goes up in flames?

Say everyone worldwide starts from Zero. Nobody owns anything. How do we restart the economy? Do we issue some new money and distribute it out to the world? How much should we issue?

My first suggestion here in the US is that food be taken off the dollar immediately, and food coupons be issued. The internal food production apparatus should have a separate economy and all remaining oil we have should be directed toward maintaining production and distribution of that food as long as possible.

After that, I'm at a loss for ideas on where to go, although I do think a huge public works project should be undertaken to put to work all the unemployed, building windmills by hand utilizing car alternators. Further of the unemployed can begin the process of returning to the land to farm by hand as the oil runs dry in a couple of years.

Further Suggestions?

Reverse Engineer

[Snowrunner]

Interesting question.

Nobody owns "nothing" is not an option really, anybody who holds the title, to say a house, is probably going to keep it. Although that probably depends on the property rights (but I doubt any Government would be stupid enough not to honor that).

As far as the mortgages etc. go, the banks would probably become the owners (unless the idea is to "keep people in houses" and just "gift" it to them).

As for money? Probably the same way it went in the past in similar situations:

Exchange your $currency with $new_currency at a pre-determined exchange rate.

The funny thing is, the US is probably in the worst situation to attempt this, it would with one stroke of the pen lose the ability to act as a reserve currency, I cannot see anybody wanting to touch whatever Dollar 2.0 would be.

[Concerned]

I'm curious if anyone here has any ideas how to Reboot once the CDS market goes up in flames?

Say everyone worldwide starts from Zero. Nobody owns anything. How do we restart the economy? Do we issue some new money and distribute it out to the world? How much should we issue?

My first suggestion here in the US is that food be taken off the dollar immediately, and food coupons be issued. The internal food production apparatus should have a separate economy and all remaining oil we have should be directed toward maintaining production and distribution of that food as long as possible.

After that, I'm at a loss for ideas on where to go, although I do think a huge public works project should be undertaken to put to work all the unemployed, building windmills by hand utilizing car alternators. Further of the unemployed can begin the process of returning to the land to farm by hand as the oil runs dry in a couple of years.

Further Suggestions?

Reverse Engineer

The re-boot if any will be the usual remedy to fiat money. The average joe's savings will be wiped out with hyper inflation.

As usual parasitic bankers (the house) win again via direct social programs to help them (bailout or rescue package/plan) and they get to keep ALL assets pledged for the debt they create.

As interest rates skyrocket people lose their ability to pay loans and the banks again keep all their ill gotten gains.

[ReverseEngineer]

The re-boot if any will be the usual remedy to fiat money. The average joe's savings will be wiped out with hyper inflation.

As usual parasitic bankers (the house) win again via direct social programs to help them (bailout or rescue package/plan) and they get to keep ALL assets pledged for the debt they create.

As interest rates skyrocket people lose their ability to pay loans and the banks again keep all their ill gotten gains.

Well, this would be the typical response, but since the bankers themselves are basically wiped out (no deep pocket JP Morgans floating around here), I don't see this one as working this time around.

If there is to be a reboot, the principles have to be entirely different. The primary principle I see that needs to be reviewed is the concept of Ownership. When the Natives here in America "sold" the land to the migrating Old World folks, they saw this as kind of foolish on their part, as nobody really "owns" the land. Of course, this ended up with them basically getting wiped off the earth, but since we now are ALL in danger of being wiped off the earth, maybe they were right after all?

Could we develop an economy with no ownership of land?

Reverse Engineer

[Quinny]

Brought to mind a party piece of mine!

After a few pints I can get a bit embarassing !!

In 1649
To St George's Hill
A ragged band they called the Diggers
Came to show the people' s will
They defied the landlords
They defied the laws
They were the dispossessed
Reclaiming what was theirs

We come in peace, they said
To dig and sow
We come to work the land in common
And to make the waste land grow
This earth divided
We will make whole
So it can be
A common treasury for all.

The sin of property
We do disdain
No one has any right to buy and sell
The earth for private gain
By theft and murder
They took the land
Now everywhere the walls
Rise up at their command.

They make the laws
To chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven
Or they damn us into hell
We will not worship
The God they serve
The God of greed who feeds the rich
While poor men starve

We work, we eat together
We need no swords
We will not bow to masters
Or pay rent to the lords
We are free men
Though we are poor
You Diggers all stand up for glory

Stand up now
From the men of property
The orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers
To wipe out the Diggers' claim
Tear down their cottages
Destroy their corn
They were dispersed -
Only the vision lingers on

You poor take courage
You rich take care
The earth was made a common treasury
For everyone to share
All things in common
All people one
We come in peace
The order came to cut them down

[nobodypanic]

why not wipe out all debt? wipe the slate clean globally. (yes, i know they'll never do it.) imho, it's the only thing that has a chance of working. of course, eventually, unless there were major changes in the culture, you'd get right back to the same place.

[ReverseEngineer]

Nice folk song, sounds like some of the stuff the Wobblies came up with during the Great Depression.

In all past events of this type, there was wealth external to the system that was going down. Land wealthin Northern Europe in the case of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Land Wealth in the case of the discovery of the New World, Oil Wealth in the case of the ascendancy of Fascism in Europe.

No such wealth exists anywhere anymore. So for the Owners to put together armies of hired guns to take the land from the Diggers really is not possible this time around. The armies will collapse from lack of logistical supply.

I think it is different this time around.

Reverse Engineer

[Cloud9]

If you want to hit the reboot button, file bankruptcy. Chapter 7 clears the deck and cleans the slate.

[nobodypanic]

If you want to hit the reboot button, file bankruptcy. Chapter 7 clears the deck and cleans the slate.

not really. i am talking about wiping everything off the table, including forgiving student loans and mortgage debt. zeroing everything out system wide and starting from the ground up, including foreign debt. that's pretty much the only thing that could get the consumer spending again. but like i said, you'll just end up in the same place if you don't have some other fundamental changes. it'll never hapen anyway, so just wild speculation on my part.

[americandream]

I'm curious if anyone here has any ideas how to Reboot once the CDS market goes up in flames?

Say everyone worldwide starts from Zero. Nobody owns anything. How do we restart the economy? Do we issue some new money and distribute it out to the world? How much should we issue?

My first suggestion here in the US is that food be taken off the dollar immediately, and food coupons be issued. The internal food production apparatus should have a separate economy and all remaining oil we have should be directed toward maintaining production and distribution of that food as long as possible.

After that, I'm at a loss for ideas on where to go, although I do think a huge public works project should be undertaken to put to work all the unemployed, building windmills by hand utilizing car alternators. Further of the unemployed can begin the process of returning to the land to farm by hand as the oil runs dry in a couple of years.

Further Suggestions?

Reverse Engineer

I guess you need to ask yourself, do we want more of the same? If you do, then you reboot free enterprise back to square one, private land ownership, sit back and wait for another ponzi scheme to unfold.

[StuckInPhilly]

I'm curious if anyone here has any ideas how to Reboot once the CDS market goes up in flames?

Say everyone worldwide starts from Zero. Nobody owns anything. How do we restart the economy? Do we issue some new money and distribute it out to the world? How much should we issue?

My first suggestion here in the US is that food be taken off the dollar immediately, and food coupons be issued. The internal food production apparatus should have a separate economy and all remaining oil we have should be directed toward maintaining production and distribution of that food as long as possible.

After that, I'm at a loss for ideas on where to go, although I do think a huge public works project should be undertaken to put to work all the unemployed, building windmills by hand utilizing car alternators. Further of the unemployed can begin the process of returning to the land to farm by hand as the oil runs dry in a couple of years.

Further Suggestions?

Reverse Engineer

These are excellent ideas IMO but we have too much culturally invested in laissez-faire for this to happen.
Once things settled to the bottom it would take a lot of govt spending to start things churning again.

[Byron100]

Here's how I would reboot America:

Why weep or slumber America
Land of Brave and True
With castles and clothing and food for all
All belongs to you

Ev'ry ma a king, ev'ry man a king
For you can be a millionaire
But there's something belonging to others
There's enough for all people to share
When it's sunny June and December too
Or in the winter time or spring
There'll be peace without end
Ev'ry neighbor a friend
With ev'ry man a king

(Huey Long, mid 1930's)

Give the people hope. Make sure everyone feels the pain, but give everyone a chance for gain. Peace without end (no military) and every neighbor a friend (strong sense of community) are the keys to making it work.

And one other thing: Debt is the worse cancer that has ever besieged the human race. By golly, at the very least, let's rid ourselves of that.

[Tyler_JC]

So...

People who own their homes outright would be put in the same boat as people who own 1% of their homes?

Good luck getting that past the property-owning (and private army controlling) class.

[RdSnt]

What I would anticipate, once the USD goes to zero, is that local currencies and batter will have to take over, at least for a while.

You see, something that has been overlooked with regards to the world currencies coming apart, is the enormous difficulty in putting it back together.

Here in lies an ironic problem, it's all computer based. What made Wallthief so successful and stealing money is the level of complexity that could be built into the system to obscure what was actually going on. That complexity took on a life of its own and has gotten away from its masters.
Yet, it is all still based on the USD being the reserve currency and conversions with other currencies are built into that system.
TPTB while trying desperately to hide what is going on, and delaying the inevitable as long as possible, are stuck within the system they built.
Once it all comes apart it will take an incredible amount of time to re-construct a stable system.
There is no plan-B.

[Gerben]

Currencies don't all fail at the same time. 1 currency fails and is replaced by something else. Either the same governemnt issues a new currency that is being adopted or people use a foreign currency. That would probably be Euros or SA Rands. Perhaps we could issue new silver Maria Theresa Thalers.

[ReverseEngineer]

Once it all comes apart it will take an incredible amount of time to re-construct a stable system.
There is no plan-B.

Agreed, TPTB have no "Plan B". Thus the reason for this thread, the idea here is to use all the fabulous Brainpower extant on the board to COME UP with a Plan B.

Clearly as of today, there is enough food and enough oil still around to keep the engine running to some degree. However, you cannot use the same concepts of ownership, indebtedness, none of that works to keep the system functioning.

So you need a new OP system, about IMMEDIATELY. Forget Fiat Currency. Take total volum of food in a given year and make that the starting point. Distribute out the wealth as necessary to survive as a community, and then begin the process of building toward an infrastructure that works in the absence of oil. Yes, may people will die, but they do not necessarily have to die all at ONCE here.

Reverse Engineer

[the48thronin]

Currencies don't all fail at the same time. 1 currency fails and is replaced by something else. Either the same governemnt issues a new currency that is being adopted or people use a foreign currency. That would probably be Euros or SA Rands. Perhaps we could issue new silver Maria Theresa Thalers.

when your 'currency" won't buy you anything... what would you call it if not failed?


"Excuse me but can I give you these three shiny coins for that fish you just caught?"

"NAH I already got a shiny coin, got any tobacco or corn?"

[vision-master]

Currencies don't all fail at the same time. 1 currency fails and is replaced by something else. Either the same governemnt issues a new currency that is being adopted or people use a foreign currency. That would probably be Euros or SA Rands. Perhaps we could issue new silver Maria Theresa Thalers.

when your 'currency" won't buy you anything... what would you call it if not failed?


"Excuse me but can I give you these three shiny coins for that fish you just caught?"

"NAH I already got a shiny coin, got any tobacco or corn?"

Whiskey, my friend, whiskey.