[Roccland]

A man who was despondent over financial woes shot and killed his wife, three sons and mother-in-law before turning the gun on himself, according to the Los Angeles Police Department.

Hmmmm...

Someone once said humans need to be ruled.

[idiom]

Makes you appreciate people who are considerate enough to leap off buildings or walk in front of trains.

[Magus]

Selfish bastard killed in the wrong order...he should of shot HIMSELF first, and then anyone else.

[americandream]

Selfish bastard killed in the wrong order...he should of shot HIMSELF first, and then anyone else.

Maybe he was doing them all a favour.

[Magus]

Perhaps he thought that in his mind, but I'm pretty sure that his family still wanted to live.

Hell, if people can survive out in the jungle or in the slums of Mumbai, then these folks can survive being knocked down a peg or two. It's this thinking that there's no point in going on that is truly pathetic.

[Blueberry]

People who commit these acts are more likely to have

1. control
2. anger
3. mental health
4. past abuse
5. neurological

issues than the general population.

This financial situation may have been a triggering event, but the seeds of this violent act were sewn long ago.

http://www.suicidology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=6
see the sos handbook.

[ReverseEngineer]

Same choice people have always had when being conquered and are forced to choose between a life of Slavery for their loved ones or to send everyone off to the Great Beyond.

Perhaps this guy was having dreams at night haunting him of his children starving and Zombies coming to eat them alive? You know, not everyone can handle such thoughts in a rational manner.

About 6 months ago a Japanese guy drove into a crowded shopping district mowing down people with his car, then jumped out with a butcher knife and started stabbing more of them. No handguns allowed in Japan of course. Screaming at the time "The End is Near". Obviously a full scale Doomer.

I suspect there will be more of such incidents in the days,weeks and months ahead. This won't be pretty.

Reverse Engineer

[hubbertspeak7777777]

He probably realized it was all down hill from here.

[Magus]

I suspect there will be more of such incidents in the days,weeks and months ahead. This won't be pretty.

Reverse Engineer

Unfortunately, I agree.

[TWilliam]

Same choice people have always had when being conquered and are forced to choose between a life of Slavery for their loved ones or to send everyone off to the Great Beyond.

Indeed. The more honorable one as well in my estimation, tho' perhaps a bit premature. Far better to give them a quick and merciful end than to leave them to privation, the sport of marauders or the brutality of fascist 'law' enforcement...

I suspect there will be more of such incidents in the days,weeks and months ahead.

I would say that it's almost certain...

[AgentR]

Indeed. The more honorable one as well in my estimation, tho' perhaps a bit premature. Far better to give them a quick and merciful end than to leave them to privation, the sport of marauders or the brutality of fascist 'law' enforcement...

There is nothing honorable about suicide.
Ever.

Better to struggle, fight, survive, and outlive or die trying; than to surrender meekly and opt out. People have survived far worse than what is coming in our lifetimes; and have had lives, and loves, and families and even joy during such times.

Never surrender.
Survival is not the most important thing... it is the ONLY thing.

[Ayame]

Better to struggle, fight, survive, and outlive or die trying; than to surrender meekly and opt out. People have survived far worse than what is coming in our lifetimes; and have had lives, and loves, and families and even joy during such times.

Never surrender.
Survival is not the most important thing... it is the ONLY thing.

Lol yeah, even when you've got to eat your children to survive? (like the Ukranians did during the great famine). I think there comes a point where you should just accept death.

[Snowrunner]

There is nothing honorable about suicide.
Ever.

I reserve the right to "check out" when I feel it's the time for it. I have no say in when I got into this world, I have very little say about most of my life, so why the heck should I not at least have a say when to leave?

Better to struggle, fight, survive, and outlive or die trying; than to surrender meekly and opt out. People have survived far worse than what is coming in our lifetimes; and have had lives, and loves, and families and even joy during such times.

Never surrender.
Survival is not the most important thing... it is the ONLY thing.

And to what end would one need to survive? To create offspring? To make sure that the offspring is going to surivive? Sure, but neither of that is applicable to me and I am not planning on making it applicable either.

So, out of what "duty" do I have to suffer in misery?

[TWilliam]

There is nothing honorable about suicide.
Ever.

Better to struggle, fight, survive, and outlive or die trying; than to surrender meekly and opt out.

Excuse me, but the only one who suicided was the father. The rest were subjected to what, in his estimation at least (conjecture at this point, but we will assume for the sake of discussion), was an act of mercy in the face of what he perceived their likely future to be.

As far as suicide not 'ever' being honorable, I have to call bullsh*t. While there are times when it is a cop out, there are other times when it certainly is not. In situations where one has little chance of winning through, or is already defeated, it becomes the ultimate act of defiance against those who would despoil, demean and subjugate. It deprives them of the satisfaction.

Never surrender.
Survival is not the most important thing... it is the ONLY thing.

Militarist propaganda. There is no such thing as 'survival'; EVERYthing dies. The only options are when and how.

There are times when quality of life is of higher priority than mere quantity, and people deserve the respect of being permitted to make that choice.

[Blueberry]

When further researched, it becomes apparent that those who die by suicide are making less of of a "choice" than one might think.]

The mythology of our times is that it is a self-directed, rational act commited by one who had taken his power and made a choice. But, upon further investigation, one finds almost the opposite is true.

Because factors that are out of the realm of rational thought play so heavily into this phenomena, it can safely be said that it is not the culmination of reasoning by a a thinking mind, but an impulsive, emotional, and ultimately irrational act.

As ones mood becomes lower, or higher, thinking becomes so twisted, so distorted, that the only choice left to that person appears to be suicide.

We, as rational, or irrational people, try to pin down "reasons" or ethics onto something that is beyond thoughts, reasons or ethics. It's simply the end result of a road that is the same no matter the "triggering" event.

Most of those who go down the path of suicide travel the same road, the same decline, the same narrowing to the ultimate conclusion.

We like the idea of being able to choose life or death, but it is not a light switch, more like, as I said, a road. A road, I believe, that starts in a place -- childhood, mental illness, neurological damage, or trauma -- coinciding with certain temperment issues such as control and anger.

[ReverseEngineer]

When further researched, it becomes apparent that those who die by suicide are making less of of a "choice" than one might think.]

The mythology of our times is that it is a self-directed, rational act commited by one who had taken his power and made a choice. But, upon further investigation, one finds almost the opposite is true.

Because factors that are out of the realm of rational thought play so heavily into this phenomena, it can safely be said that it is not the culmination of reasoning by a a thinking mind, but an impulsive, emotional, and ultimately irrational act.

As ones mood becomes lower, or higher, thinking becomes so twisted, so distorted, that the only choice left to that person appears to be suicide.

We, as rational, or irrational people, try to pin down "reasons" or ethics onto something that is beyond thoughts, reasons or ethics. It's simply the end result of a road that is the same no matter the "triggering" event.

Most of those who go down the path of suicide travel the same road, the same decline, the same narrowing to the ultimate conclusion.

We like the idea of being able to choose life or death, but it is not a light switch, more like, as I said, a road. A road, I believe, that starts in a place -- childhood, mental illness, neurological damage, or trauma -- coinciding with certain temperment issues such as control and anger.

Only true in the situation where the person electing to suicide (or off his family also) is deluded about the idea that there is no HOPE. However, if there truly IS no Hope, then the choice becomes more rational.

Some folks decide there is no hope before others. It depends on their particular circumstance and location. It is absolutely true that for some folks right now there is NO HOPE. They are finished and they KNOW it. They make the choice to go to the Great Beyond before they see their children starved and raped. Is that wrong?

Reverse Engineer

[Blueberry]

That is what I'm saying.

If our internal mythology is telling us that it is true that there is no hope, we can look around and see if we are on "the road".

It is less of a choice, and more like a person believing they are in a burning building and jumping out the window.

The accent is on belief.

In this person's mind, because their thoughts have become so distorted and twisted by low or high mood, abuse, trauma, mental illness, neurological issues or all of the above, death is is seen as inevitable either way. Their controlling and angry temperment pushes them toward suicide.

This is almost completely an internal process.

We, on the outside, look for clues on the outside. What "pushed" this person to this "choice"?

It's a rational attempt to define a complex interplay of factors that many people who have died by suicide have in common, ie they've travelled the same road to the same place.

edit: for clarity, spelling

[ReverseEngineer]

That is what I'm saying.

If our internal mythology is telling us that it is true that there is no hope, we can look around and see if we are on "the road".

It is less of a choice, and more like a person believing they are in a burning building and jumping out the window.

The accent is on belief.

The folks in the Trade Center WERE in a burning building .There WAS No Hope. Its not "belief" its REALITY.

Nowehre to run, nowhere to hide. Methinks some folks are so presented with the truth of this in their own lives they make the choice now based on REALITY, not "Belief".

It has not touched your life yet this way. It will.

Reverse Engineer

[Blueberry]

I agree that we will see more suicides, but those who die by suicide will be the ones who were aleady vulneralbe due to the factors I laid out earlier.

The facts remain true -- there are those, despite extremely negative circumstances who will not die by suicide. Their hope is bouyed by relationships with other people, an internal landscape not ravaged by abuse, mental illness, or trauma. Their temperments are not angry or controlling.

They make it through things like concentration camps, darfur, and the local mall without even considering it.

[AgentR]

Never surrender.
Survival is not the most important thing... it is the ONLY thing.

Militarist propaganda. There is no such thing as 'survival'; EVERYthing dies. The only options are when and how.

BS.
Pure BS.

Survival means to live until forces outside your control end your life; ie old age, disease, violence, etc.

You could say everyone should just give up because the sun will eventually incinerate the Earth.. It is true enough; but it is completely meaningless.

There are times when quality of life is of higher priority than mere quantity, and people deserve the respect of being permitted to make that choice.

People always have that power; they deserve neither respect nor accolades for intentionally taking the cheap, easy way out.

Those with severe mental illness that cause them to do such things have my sympathy; but my firmest hope is that they are able to hook up with some medical help before that illness kills them.