[hope_full]

I'm not retired. I'm not free to leave the city. I'm not independently wealthy (yet). And I'm a little stuck here.

My SO and I have jobs and once every two weeks, someone comes up to us and hands us money to thank us for showing up at those jobs. And then we give that money to other people, to thank them for providing electricity and groceries, etc.

Yes, if all hell broke loose, we are able to ready, willing and able to run away to a friendly place far away from the east coast. Yes, I've done the preps.

However, reading these posts I'm more than a little amazed at how many people don't seem to have any ties (obligations) to their community/work/etc.

If you, like me, are stuck in the city (due to that four-letter word WORK), what financial/social/civil/economic indicators are you paying attention to and watching? When will you know it's time to blow this popsicle stand and abandon your job and happy home and grab your groceries and head for the hills? Because leaving a job is a severe and serious thing.

What should we city dwellers be watching? What is OUR "canary in the coal mine"?

HF

[allmeyer]

Martial law.

[zoidberg]

When the Army is deployed to your city.

edit: close post. I'd say though that martial law would be too late. There should be some time after the deployment before curfews and martial law is imposed(or at least attempted)

However dont let the current credit crisis hysteria provoke you to move too soon. Theres at least one more boomlet coming up before the long grind down. Estimated start date, 3Q 2009.

[Jotapay]

I'm staying, but I'm about 75% prepared, which is 100% better than most people around me. It will be rough but I feel confident about my situation.

Being in the country is not necessarily a panacea.

[dohboi]

Hmmm, martial law and army occupation would be more like the mine collapsing than a canary dying.

I still am not sure that urban is going to be worse than rural, but this will depend on which urban setting you are in.

Not everyone can head for the hills. For one thing there simply aren't enough hills to go around.

Peak Hills??

[miskatonic]

I would say it is time to get out if ATMs stop working. When you start hearing about police forces being cut to skeleton crews I would say it is time. After that the Feds will roll in the guard units to maintain order.


When that happens you [s]might[/s] will get martial law. Do not abandon your job just yet. Just bug out for a few days. There is still a long way to go before a collapse. When it does happen it will be in short order and very quick.

Whatever you do make sure you have enough cash/gold/savings/food to make it through at least a year.

[Duende]

Good question.

There would be riots first, then the national guard... I mean, things would have to get BAD before most people would think about leaving. But, it all depends on how fast the curtain falls, I guess.

[oswald622]

I'm not going anywhere, for a few reasons.

1. I don't have the means.

2. It would be selfish of me - I have people here to take care of.

3. It's short-sighted and futile. The collapse will only last a short time; the New Order of the Ages will soon rise from the ashes like a phoenix.

[miskatonic]

Hmmm, martial law and army occupation would be more like the mine collapsing than a canary dying.
I still am not sure that urban is going to be worse than rural, but this will depend on which urban setting you are in.
Not everyone can head for the hills. For one thing there simply aren't enough hills to go around.
Peak Hills??

Urban could be far worse than rural. At least in a rural/wilderness area you could grow food or harvest berries or hunt. Few people from urban environments have the skills to live off the land. Most people would not last a day. Depending on where you go the population could be near zero.

[Arsenal]

Good question. There would be riots first, then the national guard... I mean, things would have to get BAD before most people would think about leaving. But, it all depends on how fast the curtain falls, I guess.

I guess what he is saying is he wants to be ahead of the massive wave of people fleeing the cities.

I would have to agree with some of the other posts. When the ATM's stop working, riots, and troops are deployed. My canary is the riots. First news hits of that and I am in my BOV and headed to my prep house in the country.

[dinopello]

I'm staying, my neighbood always has an awesome halloween street party.

Every day the stock market drops another 500, 1000 points I lose some "wealth" but it makes me feel better about the future. "Growth" (from 2005 hyperinfalted levels) is over and the market, which reflects expectations about future growth are finally starting to reflect it. The real problems when they hit will be severe, I think. But there is still a lot of uncertainty about what that will entail exactly. I know a lot of people who think they are certain, may be right, but I'm not one of them.

[Arsenal]

I'm not going anywhere, for a few reasons.
3. It's short-sighted and futile. The collapse will only last a short time; the New Order of the Ages will soon rise from the ashes like a phoenix.

In that short time you might not make it. That is the point. To get out until things stabilize. Something will take over and establish law but that might not be for a month or longer. Being in the hot zone could be very bad. Shootings, riots, looting, martial law....

[Arsenal]

I'm staying, my neighbood always has an awesome halloween street party.
Every day the stock market drops another 500, 1000 points I lose some "wealth" but it makes me feel better about the future. "Growth" (from 2005 hyperinfalted levels) is over and the market, which reflects expectations about future growth are finally starting to reflect it. The real problems when they hit will be severe, I think. But there is still a lot of uncertainty about what that will entail exactly. I know a lot of people who think they are certain, may be right, but I'm not one of them.

True. I don't think we are there yet but everyday it seems we get closer.

[jlw61]

I would leave the city if:

1) A state of war existed with Russia
2) The only gas likely to be available is the gas in my tank
3) City water stops flowing for more than 3 days
4) My wife and I become unemployed for more than 3 months

I would consider it if David Caruso want's to rename his show to "CSI - Richmond"

[shady28]

Hm, have to say I'm a bit disappointed at the doomers.

I'd say about 50% of the population would attempt to leave if riots broke out and the national guard were deployed, with banks closed and curfews set.

Short version of that is - good luck if you wait that long.

For me personally, my first key will be loss of employment and a glaring glut in the workforce making it near impossible to find even basic employment. Unrest would probably be apparent at that point, but not riots. Anyway, once things reach that level the only reason to stay in the city is a forlorn hope that things will get better.

[emersonbiggins]

I'm not only NOT leaving the fair city of Dallas, but I'm about to sign a two-year lease on a house. Not that I don't believe in imminent doom around the corner, but I have a feeling we are going to one extreme or the other. I figure if I have to break the lease to bug out, it will be because of the nightly riots in the city from those without jobs, and the landlord will have counted himself lucky to even have a paying tenant in those conditions.

In the same vein, it might be a good time to go to firefighting school.

[oswald622]

I'm not going anywhere, for a few reasons.
3. It's short-sighted and futile. The collapse will only last a short time; the New Order of the Ages will soon rise from the ashes like a phoenix.

In that short time you might not make it. That is the point. To get out until things stabilize. Something will take over and establish law but that might not be for a month or longer. Being in the hot zone could be very bad. Shootings, riots, looting, martial law....

Maybe I should have added:

4. I live in the most ag-based county in central California. My house sits on an almond orchard surrounded by sweet potato fields and peach trees. We have our own well and septic system and lots of family live nearby. There is also a vibrant underground economy fueled by the efforts of Hmong and Mexican farm workers; their open-air market does business right down the street.

[Arsenal]

Maybe I should have added:
4. I live in the most ag-based county in central California. My house sits on an almond orchard surrounded by sweet potato fields and peach trees. We have our own well and septic system and lots of family live nearby. There is also a vibrant underground economy fueled by the efforts of Hmong and Mexican farm workers; their open-air market does business right down the street.

That sounds better than where I am currently at. Big city but my bug out place is in upstate NY and we are setup pretty well there.

So it is really important that we get out before everyone else. We have all the gas needed to make the trip x3 and we have four different routes just in case they close the major highways. We will see if it is enough.

[Sys1]

I'm happy here, near Paris. Finally, I prefer to be vaporized by a thermonuclear weapon instead of dying alone slowly, eating some ugly food or dead people in the forest.
Look, my job is here (elementary public school teacher), my wife too (she got a shop). I have some cash on hand (more in bank), and funny stuffs like bike, books, crossbow, cranck radio, water purifier...
We don't have debts, a house behind the shop which belongs to us. Damn, why would I went away???

[Spanktron9]

I don't believe that "bugging out" is a real solution. Unless you and yours have spent significant time creating a completely sustainable and defensible bug out. Stocked with food, independent water and power, etc. That was my goal, but ran out of time and capital. I was hoping for a 2010-2012 collapse. Oops. Anyway, I have food, fuel, water and defense at my current home. It is backed to a waterway and minutes from my work (while I have a job) I have two kids in school and my wife is in college. Until we pull the plug on "the world", we stay. I have a potential bug out with some older PO aware friends who have farm, off-grid power and water, and plenty of merchantable timber.

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy- Colin Powell