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US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Buggy » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 09:48:37

I think it will. All the world central banks pledged this weekend to pump unlimited amounts of US dollars into system to break the credit jam.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27161548
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27157731
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby galacticsurfer » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 10:05:42

FWIW

http://www.mmacycles.com/weekly-preview ... -13,-2008/

For this coming week, we find a full moon on Tuesday October 14, followed by the return of Mercury to its direct motion the next day. Astrologically this could correspond to a temporary end of the painful first leg down of the bear market in equity prices. However, Mercury changing directions is minor in comparison to the force of the Saturn-Uranus opposition which is still approaching, and not due for its first hit until November 4. It feels like a hurricane watch, with headwinds already wreaking great damage before the center of the storm reaches land.

On a somewhat positive note, Venus ended its sextile-trine to that Saturn-Uranus opposition on Friday, October 10. That too could correspond to some relief, however temporary. I realize everyone would like to believe the bottom of this plunge is happening right now and things will return to normal. However, I cannot make that statement from my knowledge of these geocosmic factors. This is a debt crisis, and in case no one realizes it, that is what money has become. It is a medium of “debt” (Pluto). Now we leave Pluto (debt) in Sagittarius (expansion). For the next 15 years, it will be Pluto (debt) in Capricorn (contraction). It is a whole new playing field. Save your money, protect your capital, pay off your debt and let the banks figure out what they have to do to save their souls from their inane accounting practices of the past 35 years that considered debt as a measure of worth. Maybe with Pluto in Capricorn they will back up their “worth” with something tangible again, instead of as percentage of how much debt they can put on their books.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby z28colt » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 11:48:18

Martin Armstrong's Pi Cycle indicates a major downturn in April. I had planned to sell out in March, but it looks like things hit early. Now I'm just hoping for a slight rally to get out now. I think that April may be the beginning of the second leg down, and I think it will be much worse than this one.

If the Nov. date is correct above, it will closely match the first leg down in 1929. The markets leveled off in early November and made a slight rally only to begin the second leg down a few months later.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 11:56:25

Hogan wrote:Dead cat bounce? I don't really think this rally will last through the week. I give it a few days at most. Maybe even down minus today at closing.


Sounds about right. IMHO, it's just a standard bear market rally. Things get oversold and the market rallies for a bit. My SWAG is that we'll rally back into the mid 9000's by Wednesday then start to drop again.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 12:03:51

"All the world central banks pledged this weekend to pump unlimited amounts of US dollars into system to break the credit jam."

Does this seem rather astonishing to anyone else?

We are now beyond trillion-dollar bailouts. This is bailouts as far as the eye can see.

Gee, this capitalism stuff really works well. We should be sure to commit ourselves to it unquestioningly for ever and ever amen.

grrrrrrrrr.

"Now I'm just hoping for a slight rally to get out now."

I'm wondering how many others are thinking this way. This looks like a bear trap. Does reversion to the mean started in '82 mean going well below 7000?

The continuing fall in oil prices means that that market is still pricing in continuous collapse.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Minvaren » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 12:06:34

With the huge rally on Friday, you probably have a lot of people who will exercise profit-taking shortly. I don't know if it'll be this week, but I reckon we'll have some sort of selloff soon that could start a second major correction.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby RonMN » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 13:03:59

I believe quarterly earnings reports come out this week & next. That will probably kill any rally in the market. If somehow we can squeek an extra quarter out of our financial system, I think earning reports in January (for the x-ma$ shopping season) will be truely ugly.

Remember, consumer spending is 70% of our economy.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby lper100km » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 15:21:59

You've seen and felt the fear. Greed is looking for a return visit.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 16:07:17

smallpoxgirl wrote:...My SWAG is that we'll rally back into the mid 9000's by Wednesday then start to drop again.

Good call, SPG:

Image

Dow Logs Biggest One-Day Point Gain Ever

Stocks bounced back from their worst week ever with one of their best performances in history as investors cheered a global cash infusion designed to unthaw the credit market and avoid a global meltdown.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average snapped an eight-day losing streak, gaining 936.42, or 11 percent, to close at 9,387.61.

It was the biggest point gain in the Dow's history — nearly double the prior record of 499.2 set back in 2000 — and the biggest percentage gain since 1933.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby frankthetank » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 18:57:21

Someone on marketwatch posted this...

Image
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:04:31

frankthetank wrote:Someone on marketwatch posted this...

Cool chart. It'll happen again if they can't truly unfreeze the credit market.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Bas » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:09:49

apparently this is the biggest % upmove since 1933 (11%)
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby seldom_seen » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:14:56

It was nice to see our tax dollars at work today.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Dan1195 » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:18:15

All the initial bailout did was change the nature of the initial crash ffrom being very sharp for more of a cascading on, and pushed it back two weeks. I would assume the banks would be willing to lend to the extent there wont be a complete freeze up with government backing behind it. Of course a constriction of availibility wil occurr regardless but I think the depression option is off the table now. Significant inflation may occurr as a result though.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby DantesPeak » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:24:47

dohboi wrote:"All the world central banks pledged this weekend to pump unlimited amounts of US dollars into system to break the credit jam."

Does this seem rather astonishing to anyone else?

We are now beyond trillion-dollar bailouts. This is bailouts as far as the eye can see.

Gee, this capitalism stuff really works well. We should be sure to commit ourselves to it unquestioningly for ever and ever amen.

grrrrrrrrr.

"Now I'm just hoping for a slight rally to get out now."

I'm wondering how many others are thinking this way. This looks like a bear trap. Does reversion to the mean started in '82 mean going well below 7000?

The continuing fall in oil prices means that that market is still pricing in continuous collapse.


FDIC to insure all non-interest bearing bank deposits: WSJ


Unlimted new cash, plus unlimted deposit insurance, plus unlimted guarantee of interbank lending (not yet all annnounced everywhere, but likely).

Did I forget anything? How about the government buying major interests in 9 top banks and stock in thousands more?

See this post for more about the latter:
http://www.peakoil.com/post792186.html#792186
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:35:48

DantesPeak wrote:Unlimited new cash, plus unlimited deposit insurance, plus unlimited guarantee of interbank lending (not yet all annnounced everywhere, but likely).

*Nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

Is virtual money great, or what?

And to think we all thought that living in The Matrix would be a bad thing. Silly us!
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby doomlover666 » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:39:48

RonMN wrote:I believe quarterly earnings reports come out this week & next. That will probably kill any rally in the market. If somehow we can squeek an extra quarter out of our financial system, I think earning reports in January (for the x-ma$ shopping season) will be truely ugly.

Remember, consumer spending is 70% of our economy.


I completely agree, I have talked with a lot of my friends in the retail sector and most of them have told me that their customer counts are way down and that the companies are not hiring on the Christmas help like they have in the past. I personally believe this will be the worst holiday season EVER in US history, aside from the great depression, and I wouldn't be surprised if you see a lot of the big chain stores closing down more of their under performing store after January.
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Re: US Markets Monday, 10-13-2008

Unread postby seldom_seen » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 19:50:07

Here's a question I have for a day like today where the government goes in and buys up a bunch of stocks to pump the market. If the govt realizes a loss on this stock purchase, obviously that's written off to the taxpayer.

What if though the government actually makes a profit? Does that profit go directly to the banks? Or does Hank Paulson just keep that as a bonus?
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