[jasonraymondson]

This guy is actually promoting that GM and the other auto companies file for chapter 11. Seriously, WTF What about all those companies that are owed, the unions, the pensions. The guy writing this article should be fired.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/14/news/co ... 2008101509

[Jotapay]

One of the many glaring problems these companies face is the enormous pension obligations that they owe. There will be no way that they can pay them as they are much smaller companies with much less revenue than they were in the past. Bankruptcy would take care of that, while screwing tons of working-class retirees.

[Spanktron9]

Jason-

I haven't read the article yet, but I have been of the opinion that chapter 11 is the only solution for GM and Ford for several years. No one wants their debt, so no one will buy them. No one can honor their healthcare commitments, so no one will buy them. Only after they come out of BK can the cleansed assets be purchased and ANY jobs be saved. Just my 2 cents.

[Fishman]

Apparently selling cars won't pay for "the unions, the pensions". I assume you'll pony up the money Jason?

[retiredguy]

No doubt the government (who else) will pickup the cost of the pensions. We already pay the pensions of Bethlehem Steel retirees, etc.

What is the name of the agency empowered to do this?

Picking up the pensions of the Big Three, however, will require gobs more Chinese money.

[jasonraymondson]

I just said, that I don't believe in filing for bankruptcy. I think that any company that does it, does not deserve to exist. If you can't run your business without running it into the ground like all of these fuckers you don't exist.

I am mad at the bankruptcy thing, because the government will end up stepping in and bailing them out with money they don't deserve.

[Denny]

One of the many glaring problems these companies face is the enormous pension obligations that they owe. There will be no way that they can pay them as they are much smaller companies with much less revenue than they were in the past. Bankruptcy would take care of that, while screwing tons of working-class retirees.

It seems there is something rotten in our system, that companies do not have to properly set aside the proper amount of funds to take care of these pension and health care obligations. Accountants can estimate how much should be set into reserves and that should be done. Right now, employers can forego deposing thsoe amoutns and let their "tab" run up. In essence, employers with long term pension and health care provisons are running large insurance plans, Imagine the hullaballo if a big insurer just spent as they took in premiums, set up insufficient reserves, and left policy holders holding the bag! It would be called fraud.

Its happened with steel compaines, airlines, and so on. Many workers do not even get a pension, and its unfair to soak the general taxpayer to take care of the automaker commitments. But, I guess that horse is out of the barn now. I too am entitled to a small pension from GM down the road, and it now looks like it is going to be smaller than expected.

[ubercrap]

This guy is actually promoting that GM and the other auto companies file for chapter 11. Seriously, WTF What about all those companies that are owed, the unions, the pensions. The guy writing this article should be fired.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/14/news/co ... 2008101509

How is having them disappear altogether better? Anyway, the suggestion of bankruptcy as the best thing for the Big Three isn't a new idea.

[emersonbiggins]

I am mad at the bankruptcy thing, because the government will end up stepping in and bailing them out with money they don't deserve.

You mean besides the [s]$2[/s] [s]$6[/s] $25 billion they were given last week?

[Revi]

To heck with them. We have new car companies. What do we need them for? You'll still be able to get parts from JC Whitney for a while.

They should have give the 25 billion to Zap, Aptera and Tesla.

They are the new big three.

[jasonraymondson]

This guy is actually promoting that GM and the other auto companies file for chapter 11. Seriously, WTF What about all those companies that are owed, the unions, the pensions. The guy writing this article should be fired.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/14/news/co ... 2008101509

I suppose you would rather them disappear altogether? Anyway, the suggestion of bankruptcy as the best thing for the Big Three isn't a new idea.

YES, if you can't run a business any better than what these people do, then you don't deserve to have a business.

These company just take on more and more debt, sell worthless pieces of paper to try to pay off the debt.

They waste money on expanding into new lines they have no place being, they build cars and trucks that get 8 miles per gallon to appease their oil overlords. They are always shooting for the immediacy without ever looking towards the future.

They overcharge for vehicles, they rape and pillage the environment.

Yet, you are going to be surprised and stand up for their right to continue anally ream everyone they can???

It is time that these companies are allowed to fail, it is time for accountability, and it is time that these people who lie, cheat, steal, and cause massive damage to the earth be forced to pay for their crimes.

Any CEO who files for bankruptcy should lose everything: Houses, cars, savings, and freedom. If you are criminally negligent, then you should pay the consequences.

[mos6507]

They should have give the 25 billion to Zap, Aptera and Tesla.

They are the new big three.

Aptera and Tesla, fine, but Zap are crooks.

[mos6507]

Any CEO who files for bankruptcy should lose everything: Houses, cars, savings, and freedom. If you are criminally negligent, then you should pay the consequences.

Instead they are rewarded.

[nobodypanic]

nationalize them. then get those factories to produce useful things.

[retiredguy]

Bankruptcy doesn't mean the Big Three would go out of business. The point the Fortune writer was trying to make is that by shedding debt, reducing operational footprint, etc. these companies would be better able to restructure themselves to compete in the new economy.

Just saying...

[gnm]

Bankruptcy doesn't mean the Big Three would go out of business. The point the Fortune writer was trying to make is that by shedding debt, reducing operational footprint, etc. these companies would be better able to restructure themselves to compete in the new economy.

Just saying...

With the added bonus of bailing out of their obligations and screwing their former employees whom I am sure will all be able to run out and buy a shiny new car after those hospital bills are paid off!

-G

[Revi]

nationalize them. then get those factories to produce useful things.

I agree completely. However, do we want their factories?

I say we start to build things like busses and train cars.

We build small dwellings that can be infilled around transportation hubs.

We build small cars like this: www.sunnev.com

We could get ready for what's coming, or we could wail about the loss of the musclecar.

Good bye big three. Time to go. They will make nice museum pieces.

[nobodypanic]

nationalize them. then get those factories to produce useful things.

I agree completely. However, do we want their factories?

I say we start to build things like busses and train cars.

We build small dwellings that can be infilled around transportation hubs.

We build small cars like this: www.sunnev.com

We could get ready for what's coming, or we could wail about the loss of the musclecar.

Good bye big three. Time to go. They will make nice museum pieces.

well, i am operating under the assumption that w/some less than complete retooling you could get those factories to produce things along the lines of what you mentioned. i don't know if that's an accurate assumption, but i don't think it's that far off.

realistically, however, i don't expect anything of the sort. it'd just make too much sense.