[jazzguitar14]

My Mother (age 65 pushing retirement) asked me what I thought about the idea of her putting in a new bathroom and kitchen in her home as an investment. I am slightly torn between answers...

I believe any home investment will still see an approximate 20-25% downfall as I believe housing prices are still inflated.

Also, I feel that spending loose cash now on tangible asets (new bath / kitchen) may not be a bad idea prior to the hyper-inflation I believe we will experiance in the near future.

I also believe that providing business for our local contractor is in a small way helping to boost the economy to some extent and providing a "consumer service" to the community.

I know the doomers will answer to buy gold and bullets and canned food, but I dont think mom will go for that answer...

So, what are your thoughts on home improvement as investment in the current market?

[Twilight]

Insulation. Wood stove. Give all due consideration to local air quality laws.

[retiredguy]

As a person of your mother's generation, I would say go for it.

If things get as bad as many on this board believe they will get, what are the chances that many senior citizens will survive the chaos?

How many would want to?

Let her enjoy the time she has left.

[retiredguy]

As an addendum, I was speaking for oldsters in general, not me in particular.

I've made my preparations and wouldn't want to miss the comiing show. Always was fascinated with the Alamo.

[cube]

I hate to sound insensitive but the best time to ask about investment advice is when you're young, NOT wait till you're 65 and ask,
"geez what type of options do I have available for me right now?"

cube's reply -> "To be brutally honest at age 65, not much!"

Does your mom plan on selling this house or is she going to use it as a rental?
If she plans on upgrading the house hoping it will command a higher selling price that's a bad idea.
However if she plans on keeping the house and using it as a rental then adding in an extra bathroom might be a great idea.

I think being a landlord is a good investment idea if you're old.
It's not sexy but it gives a stable supply of inflation adjusted cash every month.
Furthermore not to sound like you're capitalizing on other's misfortune but with all the foreclosures happening now, the demand for rental units just might go up.
it depends...

[ShirleyKat]

If she's going to stay in that house and she's thinking of spending money on something tangible that will be useful to her, I'd say go for it. Maybe you could influence her to make a large pantry part of the kitchen remodel by pointing out that it's better to have plenty of food stored for emergencies. After retiring to snow country, I'd have done that anyway because I have no intention of driving on the stuff.

If the bathroom is uncomfortable and she'd be happier with something better, I'd go for that too. That was the case with bathroom remodels in the 50-year old house I bought. Anything that might be needed later (new toilet, faucets, etc.) is going to be cheaper to replace now than later. I also remodeled the kitchen because the old one was so unusable, it probably discouraged other buyers. I also invested in insulation and a new furnace.

Hopefully, she's not thinking of doing this just to sell the house now, but at some point she might need to do that. If her house is "newer" than others, it could make the difference in who gets the sale.

Shirley

[MarkJ]

Generally speaking, kitchen and bath remodels add substantial value and/or help sell homes, but it's a tough call from an investment perspective since the real estate market is regional/local in nature.

The location, age of home, structural/mechanical condition, home size, home style, floor plan, lot size, room for expansion, off-street parking, school system, taxes, traffic, crime, views, street/road systems etc dictate how much money I'll sink into renovations, upgrades and other improvements.


When I sell an investment home, I generally remodel the kitchen & baths shortly before I put the home on the market so that everything is modern and in absolutely perfect you-can-eat-off-the-floors condition. The New Factor is often why a potential buyer chooses one home over another.

We see a lot of homes for sale with cosmetic and interior improvements in need of other critical improvements (foundation, drainage, waterproofing, structural, windows, insulation, weatherization, ventilation, electrical, plumbing, heating, cooling).

[drgoodword]

My Mother (age 65 pushing retirement) asked me what I thought about the idea of her putting in a new bathroom and kitchen in her home as an investment. I am slightly torn between answers...

If your mother is well-off, then, sure, renovate.

But if she isn't, then I'd say it's an unwise expenditure of money to remodel "as an investment" in the middle of the worst housing crash in history, which most analysts now admit is only halfway done.

[gt1370a]

Think about this for a minute. Let's say the house is worth $100,000. You spend $20,000 to fix up the bathroom and kitchen. What idiot would pay you more than $120,000 for the house? You will get more than $100k but less than $120k. As an investment, this will lose money. Now if it's just because she wants to upgrade and is willing to SPEND the money to do it, no problem, but it clearly is not an INVESTMENT.

That's how I was able to see that the "housing bubble" was phony from the start. If I'm in the market for a house, why would I pay $130,000 for a $100,000 house that has $20,000 in upgrades? It just doesn't make any freaking sense. Ok, so people did stupid things like that from 2002-2007. They aren't doing it anymore, and hopefully never will again.

Now the exception is that if the house has major structural flaws and is unusable. In that case, restoring it may add some value - the question is does it add more value than the contractor charges you to do the work?

[nobodypanic]

Think about this for a minute. Let's say the house is worth $100,000. You spend $20,000 to fix up the bathroom and kitchen. What idiot would pay you more than $120,000 for the house? You will get more than $100k but less than $120k. As an investment, this will lose money. Now if it's just because she wants to upgrade and is willing to SPEND the money to do it, no problem, but it clearly is not an INVESTMENT.

That's how I was able to see that the "housing bubble" was phony from the start. If I'm in the market for a house, why would I pay $130,000 for a $100,000 house that has $20,000 in upgrades? It just doesn't make any freaking sense. Ok, so people did stupid things like that from 2002-2007. They aren't doing it anymore, and hopefully never will again.

Now the exception is that if the house has major structural flaws and is unusable. In that case, restoring it may add some value - the question is does it add more value than the contractor charges you to do the work?

say wha...? geez guys, learn to do this stuff yourself. i remodeled two bathrooms for under $300. and, no, i am not a contractor or anything--it isn't rocket science; anyone can do it. contractors are grossly overpaid.

[gt1370a]

You can't even buy a decent toilet for $300.

[nobodypanic]

You can't even buy a decent toilet for $300.

i didn't need a new toilet. the old one was perfectly fine (however, the floor wasn't, and i replaced the entire sub floor--and that'll cost you far far more than a GD toilet; you can be sure of that!), and besides, i can put in a new toilet myself w/no problem (in fact, any idiot could). now if i got your $300 toilet, i wouldn't need someone to put it in for me, so i'd still come out ahead--wayyy ahead, because again, contractors are overpaid.

edit: PS: $300 for a toilet? bwahaha. you can find them a lot cheaper than that my man.

[MarkJ]

say wha...? geez guys, learn to do this stuff yourself. i remodeled two bathrooms for under $300. and, no, i am not a contractor or anything--it isn't rocket science; anyone can do it. contractors are grossly overpaid.

Your remodeling costs are certainly below average.

Average Kitchen & Bath Remodel Prices

Jim Mirando and Mike Stauffer
Excel Interior Concepts and Construction, Lemoyne, Pa.

Product costs for an average kitchen:
Cabinets: $14,842
Countertops: $7,089
Appliances: $4,814
Flooring: $2,426
Plumbing fixtures: $1,656
Electrical fixtures: $1,238
Backsplash: $688
Total: $32,753

Product costs for an upscale kitchen:
Cabinets: $24,914
Appliances: $10,238
Countertops: $8,788
Flooring: $5,487
Plumbing fixtures: $2,517
Backsplash: $1,645
Electrical fixtures: $1,498
Total: $55,087

Product costs for an average bath:
Electrical fixtures: $1,821
Cabinets: $1,785
Tub/shower wall tile, shower seats, shelves: $1,418
Countertops: $1,190
Flooring: $937
Plumbing fixtures: $559
Accessories: $97
Total: $7,807

Product costs for an upscale bath:
Electrical fixtures: $6,055
Cabinets: $5,135
Countertops: $4,614
Tub/shower wall tile, shower seats, shelves: $2,971
Plumbing fixtures: $2,374
Flooring: $2,154
Accessories: $262
Total: $23,565

National Average Kitchen Remodel Prices

National Average Bath Remodel Prices

Most older bathrooms we remodel are completely gutted to bring them up to code and/or do the job right. The cost of materials, labor (licensed contractor, licensed plumber, licensed electrician) Building/Plumbing/Electrical Permits/Inspections, markup and extras costs big bucks.

Many floors in older homes have too much deflection to support tile or natural stone, so a lot of money is spent on structural work and floor sheathing as well.

[Jotapay]

Unless she has more money than she knows what to do with, it's a terrible idea. Save the cash.

[nobodypanic]

Most older bathrooms we remodel are completely gutted to bring them up to code and/or do the job right. The cost of materials, labor (licensed contractor, licensed plumber, licensed electrician) Building/Plumbing/Electrical Permits/Inspections, markup and extras costs big bucks. Many floors in older homes have too much deflection to support tile or natural stone, so a lot of money is spent on structural work and floor sheathing as well.

those costs are ridiculous! ridiculous, i tell you. and i had to tear up the floor and redo it (second floor), right down to the joists, adding in everything necessary to get to tiled floor at the end. the costs of materials for the floor wasn't expensive at all.

i was quoted 7k and got it done for about 5% of that. so, i am sure that you can see how it is that from my perspective, i think contractors are overpaid and overpriced.