[EndOfGrowth]

It seems like the I.T industry could be next to take a battering. Both hardware manufacturers and software developers are beginning to feel the crunch.

Orcale shares slump on revenues

Hewlett-Packard shares fall with Wall St

It seems like everyone I talk to has jumped on the I.T gravy train and works as a DBA , programmer or is in networking etc etc and are earning up to £100k per year which is serious money. However with the 'downturn' affecting shares prices of the worlds 3rd largest software developer as early as March it looks like things may get very bleak over the coming months in the I.T sector, due to increasing layoffs as employers look to save money which will result in a huge oversupply of workers. This in turn will lead to wage deflation and a bursting of the wage bubble in this industry which was inflated mostly by demand in the financial services sector which is now imploding.

[Jotapay]

I work in IT. I'm a DBA, applications developer, and sysadmin. I used to work for one of the best finance companies in the USA, but their share price is now under $6, lol. The company is like a morgue now. They may be DOA. I'm glad I left when I did. The programmers with whom I worked there still have their jobs and they will be the last ones to leave due to the importance of the systems that they manage.

I now work at an multi-national electronics manufacturing company. Since they are so large and can fund their own operations to a large extent, their strategy seems to be to take advantage of their rivals during this downturn by driving them out of business. So far it seems to be working. But there is a major cost-savings initiative and there is a general hiring freeze right now.

In my city, there is still a lot of hiring in IT, but my state is also one of the few in the USA that is still expanding economically. I still get a call from a headhunter at least once a week. Salaries that I see run the range from $35,000 USD to $110,000 USD. I'm tempted to try and find work at an oil company in Texas or Oklahoma, because they will most likely have the most consistent future for the rest of my working career.

The IT industry is going to take a hit for sure, but there will still be jobs out there. The downturn in IT will be largely regional and hit affected industries (finance, etc.) more severely.

[cube]

I wonder what the internet would look like if IT companies had to operate like normal businesses back in the old days meaning they had to survive purely based on profits and could NOT use the stock market as a source of funding.

hmm lets just call it web 3.0

[mos6507]

I wonder what the internet would look like if IT companies had to operate like normal businesses back in the old days meaning they had to survive purely based on profits and could NOT use the stock market as a source of funding.

hmm lets just call it web 3.0

The dotcom I work for is private and is profitable. They are out there, although they tend to be less glamorous than the startups with delusions of grandeur.

[jasonraymondson]

I wonder what the internet would look like if IT companies had to operate like normal businesses back in the old days meaning they had to survive purely based on profits and could NOT use the stock market as a source of funding.

hmm lets just call it web 3.0

Actually if that were the case, we would be looking at web 0.3 Alpha Release Candidate

[cube]

I wonder what the internet would look like if IT companies had to operate like normal businesses back in the old days meaning they had to survive purely based on profits and could NOT use the stock market as a source of funding. hmm lets just call it web 3.0

The dotcom I work for is private and is profitable. They are out there, although they tend to be less glamorous than the startups with delusions of grandeur.

One of the questions I've asked myself is how the hell do these companies provide me with:
free email
free blogging
free webspace
I keep on getting this paranoid feeling that selling advertising alone doesn't pay the bills --> it must be the stock market.
Take a look at youtube.com my gosh their bandwidth requirements must be outrageous.

Therefore web 3.0 will be an internet filled with "web services" that must be paid for and not given away for "free". I guess I'm going to find out if my prediction is right in about a couple years.

[cube]

...
Actually if that were the case, we would be looking at web 0.3 Alpha Release Candidate

Right now we're still in web2.0

When the Dow Jones drops to 4,000 then it will be web3.0 for sure.

[frankthetank]

Can i mention that i believe Google is WAY overpriced? When they start curing cancer, i'll change my mind.


The internet seems bloated, like a fat pig.

[Jotapay]

One of the questions I've asked myself is how the hell do these companies provide me with:
free email
free blogging
free webspace
I keep on getting this paranoid feeling that selling advertising alone doesn't pay the bills --> it must be the stock market.
Take a look at youtube.com my gosh their bandwidth requirements must be outrageous.

Yeah, I agree. I've always worked for IT departments for medium to huge corporations, keeping their internal servers and applications running that the employees use. I've never worked for a start-up or "dot com". That is a completely different culture than your normal run-of-the-mill corporations. You gotta wonder how successful they will be when things get really tight in a few years since they don't actually produce anything.

In the future, I'm going to try my best to work for companies that can still make and sell a physical product that people want to buy. Natural resource companies, energy companies and the huge Asian electronics giant I currently work for come to mind.

[EndOfGrowth]

The internet seems bloated, like a fat pig.

Agreed, and it could get slaughtered like one. It's another massive bubble that may have just burst.

[Jotapay]

The internet seems bloated, like a fat pig.

Agreed, and it could get slaughtered like one. It's another massive bubble that may have just burst.

I don't think that is an accurate assessment. I think the current state of information technology is not like a "bubble". Most companies that I know have a bare minimum of IT staff to run their current operations. There are no more catered free-lunch Fridays, foosball tables and refrigerators full of Snapple in the break room.

IT will take a hit, sure. But not nearly as bad as the finance industry, construction industry, and the home related sector like furniture stores and hardware stores.

As long as we use computers and especially the internet, there will be a need for the IT industry. When we go back to pen and paper, calculators, snail mail and print newspapers, then the IT industry will be finished.

[Snowrunner]

Take a look at youtube.com my gosh their bandwidth requirements must be outrageous.

During the heydays of the dot.com bubble a lot of dark fibre was put in the ground and never lit up.

The "nice" thing about IT compared to other lines of busniness is that the running cost is relative low. The power for the servers essentially.

The cost of peering and data traffic is really artifical (much like the stock market) once the capital expenditure is done the cost of keeping that thing going is very very low and has high profit margins.

A company like Google also doesn't pay the same for their pipes as you do and they are big enough to probably own good sized chunks at the current major exchanges and as they are so huge everybody wants to peer with them.

*Trip down History Lane*

Back in the early 90s, before the Internet really became a commercial entity there were maybe a few dozen people in Germany who ran the entire Internet, it was a cool time, you could actually pickup the phone and talk with the guy who ran the peering point when you had a problem and he was able to help you. You ended up paying the cost to connect yourself to the peering point, but after that it was purely an "exchange" system really.*

[Snowrunner]

As long as we use computers and especially the internet, there will be a need for the IT industry. When we go back to pen and paper, calculators, snail mail and print newspapers, then the IT industry will be finished.

Yeah, IT is going to be pretty recession / depression proof. Mainly because this is one area where companies will look for to find savings in, not in cutting staff, but in using technology to optimize (automate) other areas.

Of course it won't all be roses, if you are one of the guys who really does nothing but produce mediocre code you're out on your ass, but I think the majority who has survived the .bomb phase will most likely continue to be employed, although probably without many raises or other perks that they now (still) have.

[EndOfGrowth]

The internet seems bloated, like a fat pig.

Agreed, and it could get slaughtered like one. It's another massive bubble that may have just burst.

I don't think that is an accurate assessment. I think the current state of information technology is not like a "bubble". Most companies that I know have a bare minimum of IT staff to run their current operations. There are no more catered free-lunch Fridays, foosball tables and refrigerators full of Snapple in the break room.

IT will take a hit, sure. But not nearly as bad as the finance industry, construction industry, and the home related sector like furniture stores and hardware stores.

As long as we use computers and especially the internet, there will be a need for the IT industry. When we go back to pen and paper, calculators, snail mail and print newspapers, then the IT industry will be finished.

I was referring to the wage bubble more than anything else, I should have made my self more clear. The days of paying staff £100k per year for sitting in chairs to click on pixels all day are coming to an end.

[EndOfGrowth]

[/quote]

Yeah, IT is going to be pretty recession / depression proof. Mainly because this is one area where companies will look for to find savings in, not in cutting staff, but in using technology
[/quote]

or outsourcing?

[Jotapay]

Of course it won't all be roses, if you are one of the guys who really does nothing but produce mediocre code you're out on your ass, but I think the majority who has survived the .bomb phase will most likely continue to be employed, although probably without many raises or other perks that they now (still) have.

I totally agree. Although there are plenty of IT jobs where I live, I have seen downward pressure on IT salaries of about 15-20% in the past two years. In my opinion, I make an embarrassing amount of money for what I do, around 6 figures, but I guess I can do stuff that few other people can. I'm one of the lead persons in my area, showing all the others the best way to do what we need to do. However, when times get really tough, I would have no problem dropping my salary down to 50% of what I make now if it meant that I could keep my job. I'd still be able to eat and pay my bills, which is better than having no job and income.

[Jotapay]

or outsourcing?

Outsourcing isn't the panacea that it is made out to be in the press. Some outsourcing may work, but when you outsource the majority of your IT operations, you take a huge hit in efficiency. Having a well-run, efficient IT department on site greatly increases the rate at which you solve your IT problems. When you take into account the loss of efficiency and decreased problem-solving speed that you incur when you outsource, the cost savings really don't materialize as expected.

[vision-master]

This whole IT stuff has gotten out of hand. All IT did for the business I was in was complicate things. What a joke. REALLY.

[Jotapay]

This whole IT stuff has gotten out of hand. All IT did for the business I was in was complicate things. What a joke. REALLY.

Umm.... aren't you reading this forum on a computer and using the internet, all created by the IT industry?

[vision-master]

This whole IT stuff has gotten out of hand. All IT did for the business I was in was complicate things. What a joke. REALLY.

Aren't you reading this forum on a computer and using the internet, all created by the IT industry?

I'm talking about business. It's like I get a new hammer, but everything is controled by the hammer master (IT depart). They don't use hammers, they just try control the hammers.

As an example a bud of mine is a sales rep. He say's The IT guy's create nothing but problems or solutions that don't work. Those IT type's need to stay out of customer service.