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Synthetic oil: what is IT ?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Synthetic oil: what is IT ?

Unread postby topfuel » Fri 31 Oct 2008, 23:47:36

delete
Last edited by topfuel on Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:00:45, edited 1 time in total.
so let it be said so let it done
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby perdition79 » Sat 01 Nov 2008, 00:37:47

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/

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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby Last_Laff » Sat 01 Nov 2008, 01:04:39

Synthetic means fake. Man made. I'm fake means I'm human made.
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby topfuel » Sat 01 Nov 2008, 02:19:10

delete
Last edited by topfuel on Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:01:37, edited 1 time in total.
so let it be said so let it done
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 01 Nov 2008, 04:05:46

topfuel wrote:Not looking for simple answer or wikiped's any better ?

It's a polymer. Like plastic. It's made by chemical processes from substrates that are derived from petroleum. If your question is why we can't use it as a replacement from petroleum, the answer is that it's made from petroleum molecules that are taken apart and then put back together in specific ways.
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 01 Nov 2008, 09:49:07

smallpoxgirl wrote:
topfuel wrote:Not looking for simple answer or wikiped's any better ?
It's a polymer. Like plastic. It's made by chemical processes from substrates that are derived from petroleum. If your question is why we can't use it as a replacement from petroleum, the answer is that it's made from petroleum molecules that are taken apart and then put back together in specific ways.

It can be made from any complex carbonaceous substance like plant or animal matter, or coal in any of its grades, or even the simple molecuels that make up natural gas from the ground.

For decades we have been hearing how Coal to Oil was going to save us all from the oil shortage. For a long time there was talk of building a Natural Gas to oil plant on the north slope of Alaska and shipping the Natural Gas down as part of the crude mix in the pipeline.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 12:06:13

One of the key points to remember about any "synthetic" process for arriving at an oil based product is that it takes energy to make energy.

That plus the fact that it's probably the worst situation for liberating Carbon into the environment. CTL (Coal to liquid) is where we will go down the road once we realize how badly screwed we are or get forced into it by some outside above ground factor. It's the easiest method to use and we have lots of coal.

The only reason we haven't really done it to any great extent yet is cost. If 130-140$/bbl oil isn't enough to jumpstart that, than I conclude the only thing to get us there will be crisis. As we all know then its just too late.
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 14:33:49

In fact, back in the 70's Mobil Oil was making synoil out of NG in New Zealand. But, as AP said, it takes energy to make energy. It was a pilot project justified by two facts: NZ had very little oil production and thus high import costs and they had lots of NG with little use for it. I think Mobil was given the NG for free from the NZ gov't. Thus the only cost was the expensive process.

Also, the Germans during WWII were making oil from coal. As with many potential fixes out there it's not a technical issue...it's a financial issue.
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby newbonic » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 16:50:19

ROCKMAN wrote:Also, the Germans during WWII were making oil from coal. As with many potential fixes out there it's not a technical issue...it's a financial issue.

Embargoed South Africa also went down the coal to liquids route during the apartheid era. I think it was their state oil company SASOL that continued where the Nazis left off.
SASOL link
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Re: synthetic oil what is

Unread postby Dezakin » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 10:48:56

Well if you spend fifty billion dollars in infrastructure you can probably produce about 100,000 barrels per day in oil products from nuclear power, hydrogen, and limestone.

Of course you can get the same amount by only building the synfuel refineries and using coal water shift reaction to get the hydrogen for only five billion dollars, so synfuel is going to be coal/tar sands based for a little while.
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Re: Synthetic oil: what is IT ?

Unread postby DaleFromCalgary » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 15:17:55

Or are you asking about syncrude? Made from Athabasca Tar Sands bitumen, but not really the finished type of oil you would pour into a car engine. Bitumen does not flow at room temperature, so it has to be melted out of the oil sands and upgraded into a flowable sort of crude oil. Very expensive, of course, and one more proof of Peak Oil.
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