[AlexdeLarge]

The Denninger of Doom Speaks:
YES WE CAN....have a depression

" Obama declared that his first priority was a "second stimulus."

The problem with such a "stimulus" is that it can't and won't work, and public support for same relies on the ignorance of the body politic. As I demonstrated the last time the first "stimulus" cost you more in the first year if you were a home buyer than you got in the check; that is, it had a negative real value to you, and worse, it continued to accrue that negative value through the next 30 years!

This is what must happen because our government does not have a surplus from previous "good years" banked in the Treasury; if we had we could use it to cushion the blow. But since our government has never managed to accumulate such a surplus any such "stimulus" is in fact coming out of your pocket in the form of additional debt upon yourself in order to pay yourself.

It is exactly identical to you having $20,000 worth of credit card debt, "rolling it over" into a new credit card and then charging up the now-cleared credit line. You have not improved your financial situation one iota but rather have made things much worse!

Yet this is what President-Elect Obama and the Democratic party have proposed.

We're headed for another Depression folks and I no longer consider the actions that are being taken by our government to be "mistakes" - at this point they must be classified as knowing and intentional acts, depending on you, the public, being too ignorant of how banking and finance work to figure it out and demand that they stop it."

"PS: Watch Ireland. Closely."

[WyoDutch]

Yes.. It's all the fault of Obama and the Democrats.

They're the ones who launched an unprovoked war on Iraq that grinds away at a weekly cost of $3,500,000,000 in money borrowed from the Orient.

They're the ones who launched the scare campaign to throw $700,000,000,000 at Wall street so the shylock bankers could then use taxpayer money to buy the competition.

Yeah.. those damn Democrats... We hates 'em,

[RSFB]

"PS: Watch Ireland. Closely."

I just searched his site for other mentions of Ireland, and didn't find any. What's the deal with Ireland?

[patience]

In that Ticker essay, Karl points out the "kiting" of Treasuries now going on. This is discussed further:

Here, in a PO thread

and:

Here, in a Tickerforum thread

To me, these moves show the desperation that is obviously the order of the day at the Fed, the US Treasury, the US Govt. That desperation is also evident in the falling stock markets around the world, propped though they may be by Central Banks and Governments. That being the case, I have no more "full faith and credit" in US Treasury investments, and even less in any other investments.

I want to hear from any and all posters who have any sort of personal plan to cope with their country becoming another Iceland. As Karl said, and as Doug Noland lays out in the link below, the methods in play by TPTB cannot work:

Debt Trap

It looks like our world leaders are determined to do all the wrong things, so what do WE as individuals do? If, as many analysts say, the world monetary system is going kaput, there are no safe currencies to run to, as people in Argentina did when they collapsed.

Where to from here?

[Daniel_Plainview]

[We must] force the bad debt out into the open where it must be recognized and defaulted, no matter who it screws, then pick up the necessary pieces. This will result in a lot of bankruptcies but it will also realign debt payment capacity with debt outstanding, which is the critical element that must and will come back into balance.

We can do this via the marketplace or we can continue to increase the imbalances and guarantee a far worse outcome; it is only through government endorsement of a refusal to recognize insolvency that recessions are turned into Depressions, and right now we're getting it in spades.

If this is true, then Bush/Obama will have made matters far worse with Stimulus I and Stimulus II (and Stimulus III, Stimulus IV, Stimulus V, Stimulus VI ...).

[patience]

Here's a discussion of Ireland's financial woes, in Tickerforum's "Rumors" topic:

Irish bank holiday?

Seems they have a lot of the bad debt piled up in their banks.

[mos6507]

It looks like our world leaders are determined to do all the wrong things, so what do WE as individuals do? If, as many analysts say, the world monetary system is going kaput, there are no safe currencies to run to, as people in Argentina did when they collapsed.

Where to from here?

I don't think the free market can solve this because the scale of the debt is beyond anything the world has ever seen. It's not just another great depression. It's like international financial armageddon. So there needs to be something extraordinary done. Leaving it to just unravel naturally will probably lead to complete chaos worse than many peak oilers doomsday scenarios.

[patience]

Can't remember where, but I saw where the G20, maybe?, was reccomending heavy stimulus to economies, someone said akin to the TVA, advocating infrastructure projects. I think we'll come to that pretty quickly, when the crash gets well started. But I agree, I don't think TPTB can do squat.

But actually, I was hinting for personal direction to CYA...

[flapjax]

Yes the depression is coming... it sucks Obama or not. Alex, please give it a rest. Could you not have posted that the depression is coming without dragging Obama through the mud at every turn, you freaking bigot? It will be worse than a depression if we all can't learn to get along and work through it.

[threadbear]

What can I say, other than "Yes, we can have a Depression" would make a great chorus and title, sung to the tune of, "Yes, we have no bananas"

It's going to be deflationary depression like the Great Depression, or a hyper inflation if they keep self dealing, like Enron.

[Loki]

Yes.. It's all the fault of Obama and the Democrats.

They're the ones who launched an unprovoked war on Iraq that grinds away at a weekly cost of $3,500,000,000 in money borrowed from the Orient.

They're the ones who launched the scare campaign to throw $700,000,000,000 at Wall street so the shylock bankers could then use taxpayer money to buy the competition.

Yeah.. those damn Democrats... We hates 'em,

Ummm, if not for the Dem's support of the Iraq War Resolution, we wouldn't have gone there to begin with. And if not for their continued authorization of funds to support our foreign adventures, we wouldn't be there now.

And, ummm, did ya know the Dems spearheaded the $700+ billion Welfare for Wall Street bill, Obama included? Did ya know that? It seems not.

[Fishman]

Yes. we're SCREWED!

We had the pleasure of watching Carter humiliate his country, and Clinton humiliate himself, what's can we expect the next four years?

[AlexdeLarge]

You freaking bigot?

Hmmmmmm.........not my article jax flapping. Point of order, KD supported Obama. I suggest reading the article and his other posts.

I assume therefore that KD, as well as others, who critique "the one" will be labeled as racist? Telling..............

[cube]

Yes.. It's all the fault of Obama and the Democrats.

They're the ones who launched an unprovoked war on Iraq that grinds away at a weekly cost of $3,500,000,000 in money borrowed from the Orient.

They're the ones who launched the scare campaign to throw $700,000,000,000 at Wall street so the shylock bankers could then use taxpayer money to buy the competition.

Yeah.. those damn Democrats... We hates 'em,

Are you saying you agree with Obama's stimulus plan?
Are you saying we can spend money we don't have by getting deeper into debt?
You know what's funny that kind of sounds like a continuation of what we have now under GWB.
I guess all this talk of "change" was just smoke and mirrors.

[eastbay]

Yes.. It's all the fault of Obama and the Democrats.

They're the ones who launched an unprovoked war on Iraq that grinds away at a weekly cost of $3,500,000,000 in money borrowed from the Orient.

They're the ones who launched the scare campaign to throw $700,000,000,000 at Wall street so the shylock bankers could then use taxpayer money to buy the competition.

Yeah.. those damn Democrats... We hates 'em,

Are you saying you agree with Obama's stimulus plan?
Are you saying we can spend money we don't have by getting deeper into debt?
You know what's funny that kind of sounds like a continuation of what we have now under GWB.
I guess all this talk of "change" was just smoke and mirrors.

Bush II and Obama both take their orders from the same people. Anyone expecting change is delusional.

[threadbear]

Bush and Obama don't take their orders from "all the same people" The elite ptb aren't a single purpose sole entity. There are different factions, and some of them are more democratic and citizen friendly.

[Eli]

Loki have you taken a look at his so called economic advisers?

The list is a whos who of pigmen, Obama also was for the bailout of the bankers as well, his new chief of staff is a former investment banker.

Put it this way Jim Cramer thinks it is a dream team and Jimmy would kill his own Grandmother for a nickle.

People need to wake the hell up there may be two sides but there is just one coin.

[eastbay]

... but who exactly are these "same people" who are giving "orders" to both Obama and Bush? Enquiring minds want to know.....

[s]I'm[/s] Obviously we're all talking about Wall Street and those pulling the strings therein. I thought everyone knew this.

[threadbear]

Loki have you taken a look at his so called economic advisers?

The list is a whos who of pigmen, Obama also was for the bailout of the bankers as well, his new chief of staff is a former investment banker.

Put it this way Jim Cramer thinks it is a dream team and Jimmy would kill his own Grandmother for a nickle.

People need to wake the hell up there may be two sides but there is just one coin.

Not a good sign, superficially--for sure. But consider this-- These people may be some of the few that know what is actually going on, what murk lies below the murk we know about. Perhaps they can best advise him how to act preemptively. Hopefully he'll be saavy enough to call them on attempts at corrupting the process in the favour of bankers, against the citizen's interest.

On the other hand Obama could be the anti-Christ, in which case he should be recalled!

[Eli]

I am in total agreement with east bay.

Obama is not talking about locking up people who have committed out and out fraud. And that is what has been going on, true criminal fraud.

Obama's plan now is to make a massive spending bill to bailout everyone else, one small problem is the money he is spending is your money and that of your children.


Great quote taken from over at the TF that sums up how I feel about what is going on

American policies promote debt and force as the hammer and anvil for shaping the economy and the political dialogue. What cannot be financed into penury must be crushed into submission. The bulk of the economy is designed to prosper either the bankers or the police/prison/military/intelligence industries at everyone else’s expense. Propped up on these twin pillars of debt and threat, America remains staunchly and irrevocably American whoever wins the elections.

The restoration of fiscal prudence has been swiftly repudiated post-election in favour of more debt-financed “stimulus” and “stabilisation”.

The restoration of the rule of law and holding those who committed crimes accountable – both within America and internationally – has received no post-election endorsement from Obama.