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Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

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Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 09:32:31

Well, another Ruskie sub limped into port after a fire and subsequent poisoning of crew members with the fire retardants.

link The Ruskies need to stick to producing Kalishnikov's. Their High tech weaponry is a Ralph Nader lawsuit waiting to happen. LOL.

If this thing ever goes to a real shooting war, my bet would be a week out of port, the entire fleet of soviet subs would be in Davey Jones locker. LOL. Chances are when Medvedev pushes the button on one of their missiles, it blows up right in the Silo in Minsk.

This is not to say our F-16s are gonna be flying all that long either when the clowns in the Pentagon don't have money to buy Jet Fuel. I think we can have confidence a hig tech war will be pretty short lived. This one will be fought with Trebuchets and Atlatls from all appearances.

I'd still go with an American Atlatl made in China though :-) Ruskie military hardware is like Ruskie women, looks good out of the factory but it doesn't age well. LOL.

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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby dissident » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 11:19:38

How do you know it wasn't a CIA job?

Did you post about the piece of junk British diesel-electric sub purchased by Canada that caught fire because of corroded wiring.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby frankthetank » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 11:23:10

Just a thought, but have you ever seen those Russian built cars???

You thought the Ford Pinto was bad...

Russian women? Maybe if you want Hep A,B,C , herpes, HIV, crabs, etc...
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby dissident » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 12:28:42

frankthetank,

What is your level of education? Are you responsible for the quality of goods manufactured in the west? Did you help design them?

Your sweeping, racist generalizations say much about your IQ level. Another achiever by proxy, ubbermensch wannabe.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby coyote » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 12:33:28

ReverseEngineer wrote:LOL.

I try to keep that from being my first reaction upon hearing of people's deaths. Doesn't seem tasteful to me, somehow.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Sun 09 Nov 2008, 21:53:28

dissident wrote:How do you know it wasn't a CIA job? Did you post about the piece of junk British diesel-electric sub purchased by Canada that caught fire because of corroded wiring.

there was a rash of genuine corroded wiring problems that affected American military avionics enough to have some program specs edict, "no polyimide wiring may be used on this program".

one form of polyimide is Kapton, as in bulletproof vests & flexible circuit boards. the same material, used as an insulator on some wires, has a tendency to behave like a (firecracker) fuse ... sometimes.

i can think of 3 Russian sub incidents -
* this most recent one
* the Kursk
* the one in the movie with Harrison Ford or Sean Connery, about a Russian sub that almost became a Russian bomb off the coast of New Jersey in the '60's.

of course the US military tech. has had their share of glitches. i'm pretty sure TWA flight 800 was the result of a Navy mistake. they were playing with their AEGIS & missile defense toys that night in Long Island sound.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby JJ » Mon 10 Nov 2008, 08:23:57

Trebuchets and Atlatls

:):):)
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby dissident » Mon 10 Nov 2008, 18:04:37

Eventually, the tiny part of humanity that remains will have to go back to using sticks and stones for their political tools.

In this case there was either gross negligence or sabotage. The freon is not released without a human decision (they might want to let the computers decide next time). None of the twenty that died had any burns as there was no fire. Those that put on their breathing apparatus fast enough survived.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby Twilight » Mon 10 Nov 2008, 18:13:43

I would guess a commissioning check went wrong. Sent a real signal accidentally. It might not have happened but for the testing. All but three who died were not sailors and would not have been there in normal circumstances. Plus they would have had only a few minutes of drill. A few hours maybe. Not good enough for a real emergency. The rest of the casualties could have been caused by them too, through poor decision making or just being in the way. I think this was more likely a testing protocol rather than a technology problem.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 10:51:23

ReverseEngineer wrote:Well, another Ruskie sub limped into port after a fire and subsequent poisoning of crew members with the fire retardants.
link The Ruskies need to stick to producing Kalishnikov's. Their High tech weaponry is a Ralph Nader lawsuit waiting to happen. LOL.
If this thing ever goes to a real shooting war, my bet would be a week out of port, the entire fleet of soviet subs would be in Davey Jones locker. LOL. Chances are when Medvedev pushes the button on one of their missiles, it blows up right in the Silo in Minsk.
This is not to say our F-16s are gonna be flying all that long either when the clowns in the Pentagon don't have money to buy Jet Fuel. I think we can have confidence a hig tech war will be pretty short lived. This one will be fought with Trebuchets and Atlatls from all appearances.
I'd still go with an American Atlatl made in China though :-) Ruskie military hardware is like Ruskie women, looks good out of the factory but it doesn't age well. LOL.

Around export "Su" rose noise. He connected with the combat capabilities of our fighter and spy hunter for his secrets.

For the Air Force of Australia, a virtual battle between the Su-30 and the newest U.S. fighter fifth-generation F-35, Come to the end with full defeat Americans. For the game was a special computer program. Characteristics of Su-30 average were chosen because there are a number of modifications of this aircraft, designed in Russia specially for export.

Initiators military computer games for adults by the Americans. The fact is that Australia is considering the possibility of purchasing F-35, amounting to 16 billion dollars. These aircraft - the heirs of the famous "phantom". To speed up the process precisely and clearly intended to show the Australian military superiority of American aircraft full of new generation of Russian fighter, very popular in this region of the world. All went to the nearest vice versa.

Virtual Su-30 broke down in the dust F-35 . To express themselves, Australians, Russian beat the Americans, "as infants seals." According to the Australian press, the country's defense minister ordered him to submit a full account of the battle effectively American fighter fifth-generation F-35.

And in the U.S. at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, were already present ten combat exercises under the symbolic title of "Red Flag-2008. It was attended by Air Force fighter planes India, France, South Korea and Singapore, as well as AWACS reconnaissance of Britain. India sent eight Su-30MKI that spontaneous, refuel in the air Crossing Atlantic Ocean.

During a transatlantic flight just at the tail of the Indian squadron sat down U.S. reconnaissance RC-135. During the flight, was reportedly the Indian media, Americans are primarily recorded radiokody and working frequency radars Indian fighter. And while the very teachings of Su-30MKI fighters were under constant review a wide range of technical intelligence.

The interest of Americans to radar N-011M Bars ", established at the Su-30MKI, understandable. He was in no small measure provides a truly outstanding combat capabilities of fighter aircraft. In addition, its analogue is the latest Su-35, which is beginning to do by the Air Force of Russia.

It is clear that the Indian side of a specific interest in their machines are not very pleased. The incident, according to Indian television news channel Headlines Today, will be the subject of extensive discussion guide Indian Air Force and returned from the U.S. delegation.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby Nickel » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 10:59:07

dissident wrote:Did you post about the piece of junk British diesel-electric sub purchased by Canada that caught fire because of corroded wiring.

Our thanks for supporting them in every war from 1776 on up. Aren't they supposed to sell stuff like THAT to the Argentinians??
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby Nickel » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 11:00:46

ReverseEngineer wrote:Well, another Ruskie sub limped into port after a fire and subsequent poisoning of crew members with the fire retardants.

Try looking up "Thresher" and "Scorpion" sometime.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 11:19:41

ReverseEngineer wrote:Well, another Ruskie sub limped into port after a fire and subsequent poisoning of crew members with the fire retardants.
link The Ruskies need to stick to producing Kalishnikov's. Their High tech weaponry is a Ralph Nader lawsuit waiting to happen. LOL.
If this thing ever goes to a real shooting war, my bet would be a week out of port, the entire fleet of soviet subs would be in Davey Jones locker. LOL. Chances are when Medvedev pushes the button on one of their missiles, it blows up right in the Silo in Minsk.
This is not to say our F-16s are gonna be flying all that long either when the clowns in the Pentagon don't have money to buy Jet Fuel. I think we can have confidence a hig tech war will be pretty short lived. This one will be fought with Trebuchets and Atlatls from all appearances.
I'd still go with an American Atlatl made in China though :-) Ruskie military hardware is like Ruskie women, looks good out of the factory but it doesn't age well. LOL.

The Persian Gulf War and NATO's military action in Yugoslavia have clearly demonstrated that warplanes, cruise missiles, and air-defense complexes play a major role in modern warfare. Of the variety of air-defense weapons, Russia has one of the best in the world: the S-300PMU-1. The missile launcher intercepts nearly 100 percent of warplanes, cruise missiles, tactical ballistic missiles and other flying objects. High intensity radio noise does not affect its accuracy.

Independent experts believe the system has no equal in the West and is superior to American Patriot, British Rapier, and French Crotales systems. Russia is eager to promote the S-300 weapon on the world market and the missile launcher was flown in exhibitions in several countries. The system developed by the Almaz Central Design Bureau, has not yet undergone battle testing, but at the IDEX-93 International Weapons Show.

Spectators witnessed a live test of the system. Following this exhibition, many countries developed a keen interest in the S-300. Russia has already supplied S-300 complexes to China and Cyprus, and negotiations are underway with several other countries.

The United States, Great Britain and France are watching Russia's success in promoting the S-300 on the world market, but the United States is itself on the list of S-300 importers. In 1994, the U.S. bought an S-300PMU control unit from Belarus and a small batch of compatible missiles from Ukraine to get a closer look at the competitive technology.

The United States Army actually has been using the Patriot air-defense system since 1983. However, despite the aggressive advertising campaign used to promote it, after its unexpected poor performance in the Persian Gulf War faith in Patriot has dropped. During the Gulf War, not a single Iraqi warplane was shot down with Patriot's help, and its accuracy in hitting Iraqi tactical ballistic missiles turned out to be 50 percent lower than test-range results. Patriot frequently only caused Iraqi missiles to deviate from their trajectory by 3 to 4 kilometers, allowing the missiles to reach their targets and inflict substantial damage anyway. Although at least three to four Patriot missiles were sent to intercept every Iraqi "Scud" missile, many Iraqi missiles successfully exploded in Israel nonetheless.

The S-300 is more efficient and practical than its competitors and its international reputation as the leading air defense system is well deserved. It is composed of a radar, up to eight missile launchers each carrying four guided missiles, supplementary and maintenance units, and a missile storage station. The complex can be deployed in 5 minutes and be prepared for send-off from any unprepared site, whereas Patriot requires 30 minutes for deployment. The S-300 can also fire at six targets at once, launching one or two missiles at each. It uses solid fuel and single-stage guided missiles developed by the Fakel Engineering Bureau, each of which is 1,800 kilograms at launch, 7.5 meters long and approximately 0.5 meters in diameter. They can be stored fully-equipped in launching containers and do not require any maintenance, checks or adjustments for 10 years.

The S-300 missiles in general have more capabilities than their counterparts. They are launched with the help of a catapult held in a vertical position, which allows the unit to aim at flying objects approaching from all directions without rotating the launcher. Patriot can hit targets strictly within a 90 degree range. The S-300 is also capable of tracking its missile and target using jet vanes, despite the speed of 1,900 meters per second the missile picks up 12 seconds after launch. S-300 missiles attack low-flying targets from the top. The method has proved effective: it is 80 to 93 percent accurate in hitting tactical and strategic warplanes, and 80 to 98 percent accurate in hitting low-flying cruise missiles like ALCM. Patriot's accuracy, however, is only 40 to 60 percent. The S-300 can also hit targets from 3 to 150 kilometers away and at an altitude of 10 to 27 kilometers, while the Patriot system has an effective range of only 5 to 100 kilometers and an altitude range from 60 meters to 24 kilometers.

Russia's latest development is the S-300PMU-2 "Favorite," an improved version of the S-300. "We have always seen our task as creating a system that is effective not only against all warplane types and strategic cruise missiles, but also against ballistic missiles," the chief designer of the S-300, Boris Bunkin says. "Desert Storm demonstrated that it is not enough to hit a ballistic missile and cause it to lose trajectory. It is important to destroy its warhead. We have solved this problem. The tests that involved live Scud missiles demonstrated that the S-300PMU-2 'Favorite' effectively destroys warheads at the point of interception."

When interceptor missiles are used with the S-300PMU-2, it can hit targets at distances of up to 200 kilometers. The "Favorite" possesses heightened interception efficiency for tactical ballistic missiles and all types of cruise missiles, including relief enveloping ones. These advanced missiles can also be used with the S-300PMU-1 after minor adjustments, which can actually be performed in the field.

The lack of efficiency and convenience demonstrated by Patriot has prompted the Raiteon Corporation to launch modernization efforts. Experts say, however, that American air-defense complexes will only catch up with the technology of the S-300PMU-2 in three generations. At the moment, the S-300PMU-2 is 30 to 50 percent superior to Patriot in terms of comparable parameters.

What makes S-300 even more attractive is its low price and low maintenance costs, which are 25 to 50 percent less than those of the Patriot. Even NATO could easily integrate the S-300PMU-1 and S-300PMU-2 in its standard weaponry, making them excellent products on the global arms market.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 11:56:35

ReverseEngineer wrote:Well, another Ruskie sub limped into port after a fire and subsequent poisoning of crew members with the fire retardants.
link The Ruskies need to stick to producing Kalishnikov's. Their High tech weaponry is a Ralph Nader lawsuit waiting to happen. LOL.
This is not to say our F-16s are gonna be flying all that long either when the clowns in the Pentagon don't have money to buy Jet Fuel. I think we can have confidence a hig tech war will be pretty short lived. This one will be fought with Trebuchets and Atlatls from all appearances.

USAF vs. Indian Air Force -- Cope India 2005 by Trent Telenko at December 5, 2005 4:55 PM:
Articles in the Christian Science Monitor and on Indian blogs are touting Indian Air Force performance in Russian made Su-30 Flankers versus US Air Force F-16s in the Cope India 2005 exercise.

Like many other things in the Main Stream Media, after all the hype against the American military, the real story is what they didn't say.

There are a huge number of equipment and doctrine varables involved that either the reporter didn't know or didn't use because it did not fit the "frame" of the story he wanted to write.

Here are some of the things the Christian Science Monitor did say that I regard as hype:
"Since the cold war, there has been the general assumption that India is a third-world country with Soviet technology, and wherever the Soviet-supported equipment went, it didn't perform well," says Jasjit Singh, a retired air commodore and now director of the Center for Air Power Studies in New Delhi. "That myth has been blown out by the results" of these air exercises.

and

US fighter prowess slipping

Military experts say the joint exercises occurred at a time when America's fighter jet prowess is slipping. Since the US victories in the first Gulf War, a war dependent largely on air power, the Russians and French have improved the aviation electronics (avionics) and weapons capabilities of their Sukhoi and Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft. These improvements have given countries like India, which use the Sukhois and Mirages, a rough parity with US fighter planes like the F-16 and F-15C. China, too, now has 400 late-model Sukhois.

Yet, while the Indian Air Force designed the exercises to India's advantage - forcing pilots to fight "within visual range" rather than using America's highly advanced "beyond visual range" sensing equipment - both observers and participants admit that Indian aircraft and personnel performed much better than expected.

The Su-30 MKI "is an amazing jet that has a lot of maneuverability," Capt. Martin Mentch told an Air Force publication, AFPN. Maneuverability is key for missions of visual air combat.
If it turns out the US Air Force did, in fact, get their clocks cleaned, it will have been the second time. In Cope India 2004, an air combat exercise that took place near the Indian city of Gwalior, US F-15s were eliminated in multiple exercises against Indian late-model MiG-21 Fishbeds as fighter escorts and MiG-27 Floggers. In the 2005 exercises in Kalaikundi air base near Calcutta, Americans were most impressed by the MiG-21 Bisons and the Su-30 MKIs.

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007810.php
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby eastbay » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 12:12:26

coyote wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:LOL.
I try to keep that from being my first reaction upon hearing of people's deaths. Doesn't seem tasteful to me, somehow.

Pretty pathetic and mean response IMO too. But in his defense, he's posting from a nation where 98% of the voters chose a candidate promising more war and killing, so it's a response originating from and deeply ingrained in his national ethos. Not all his fault.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 15:21:19

frankthetank wrote:Just a thought, but have you ever seen those Russian built cars??? You thought the Ford Pinto was bad... Russian women? Maybe if you want Hep A,B,C , herpes, HIV, crabs, etc...

Russian tiger
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 16:07:01

frankthetank wrote:Just a thought, but have you ever seen those Russian built cars??? You thought the Ford Pinto was bad... Russian women? Maybe if you want Hep A,B,C , herpes, HIV, crabs, etc...

Meet Alexandra Kosteniuk, a Russian chess grandmaster who has won the 2008 World Women’s Championship title

Chess Queen
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Chess Grandmaster Alexandra Kosteniuk plays a Simul at the US Open in Fort Lauderdale
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 17:52:44

Atomic bomb - not a small object, but it is dreadful weapons the U.S. Air Force lost 40 years ago and still can not find.

The incident occurred 21 Jan., 1968, when B-52 with atomic bombs aboard regularly fly over the U.S. Thule radar base, located in northern Greenland. The plane made a forced landing and crashed while on the ice. Made from the usual explosive detonators four atomic bombs aboard B-52, worked, but nuclear explosions did not happen, because it is necessary to carry out additional operations immediately prior to discharge projectiles.

As a result of the operation to collect thousands of aircraft wreckage and snow and ice, possibly exposed to radioactive contamination, found fragments of only three bombs. Then the experts suggested that at this point fourth bomb break ice and went to the bottom of the bay. But the search with special submarine had failed. In the end, the experts concluded that the bomb could not be found or U.S. forces, nor any more.

Missing bomb containing uranium and plutonium, and poses a threat to the marine biosphere. According to scientists, to date, radioactive materials bombs already fully dissolve in the oceans. But locals fear that a nuclear bomb is still very dangerous to the environment.

Happened under the Freedom of Information Act, was classified for 40 years, and even U.S. allies - Danes, granted the territory of Greenland to the U.S. military base - were not aware of the dangerous cargo on the seabed. And only now, these materials have seen the light. Notably, the Pentagon has not yet been given in this regard, no official comment.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Tue 11 Nov 2008, 17:57:20

The American Sociological Service revealed the results of opinion polls on evaluating the policies of George Bush. In ranking the most unpopular U.S. presidents over the past 60 years, beginning with Harry Truman, acting head of the White House broke all records, gaining 76% of the votes detractors.

"No one president had not yet had the level of disapproval is higher than 70%. Bush has managed to do that this year is already three times - said Director of interviews with CNN Kitting Holland. - This means that Bush is more unpopular than Richard Nixon, when he resigned from his post during Watergate, with a disapproval rating of 66%.
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Re: Ruskie Subs: Unsafe at any Speed?

Unread postby evgeny » Thu 13 Nov 2008, 01:43:49

Su 37 - Video. SU-37 doing highly extreme maneuvers.. Watch Video about Jets
F - 22 Just Flying Pan link

Russian Super Jet Fighters link

Russian power link
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