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Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

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Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby seahorse » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 21:58:14

If this is true, its over. Yahoo news is running a story that the US is asking the Middle East for aid to bailout it out.

US seeks 300 billion dlrs from Gulf states: report
KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.

Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait. Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.

The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry, banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil. The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.

The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars. The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.

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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby mefistofeles » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:01:48

Absolutely amazing, its hard to see why anyone would want to hold Treasuries or dollars under these circumstances.

Of course this also implies that things may not be going well in the Treasury market if the US actually has to ask for money.

I wonder if the Arabs will exercise a shred of common sense and Just Say No ?
Last edited by mefistofeles on Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:16:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby seahorse » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:08:25

Reality hits this particular economic doomer, meaning me, hard. It makes me think Iceland, Argentina, Soviet Union. I hope this is wrong.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Eli » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:25:20

Seahorse it is not wrong.

We are headed into the Greater Depression.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:35:47

What is amazing, is that we called this on here 3 years ago and yet people are all shocked that this is even a possibility.

I have tried convincing people for years, but nobody will ever listen to me. Admittedly, I am probably nuts (Bi-polar)((Not officially diagnosed, but after re-reading allot of my own posts, I am starting to come to that conclusion)))

I guess their really is no hope of anyone taking you serious in the real world, if the people in this forum view you as nuts.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:37:13

seahorse wrote:Reality hits this particular economic doomer, meaning me, hard. It makes me think Iceland, Argentina, Soviet Union. I hope this is wrong.
Suppose the US does default. Citigroup and Detroit go under. Then all the other banks. Then eastern Europe. Then that takes down western Europe where the banks are leveraged 60:1 with heavy exposure to investments and loans in eastern Europe. Then China and so on and so on. What are we talking about when we say "its over"? How bad do you think it could get?
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby seahorse » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:43:58

How bad could it get? My floor would be modern day Africa. In fact, there was a book written back in the 90's that predicted that what was occuring then in Africa was a window to the future for the rest of the world. The book was called "The Coming Anarchy."

Here's a link to an overview.

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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby cipi604 » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:48:10

How bad? If everything goes as Olduvai said, really bad!
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Eli » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 22:50:08

Well, Pen that is a great explanation of what is on the table right now.

It is not just a systemic collapse of the US economy it is a collapse of the Global economy.

How bad will it get?

People will not be buying big screen TVs or buying crappy clothes from Ambercrombie and Fitch, they will just be trying to get some food in their bellies.

It is not an exaggeration to say go look at how bad the GD1 was and then just try and imagine it being even worse. Also PO is in here too, we are going to run right into it again a few years into a horrible depression.

I really can't imagine how bad it will be, truth is I don't want to.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 20 Nov 2008, 23:19:26

seahorse wrote:How bad could it get? My floor would be modern day Africa. In fact, there was a book written back in the 90's that predicted that what was occuring then in Africa was a window to the future for the rest of the world. The book was called "The Coming Anarchy." Here's a link to an overview. Dieoff

Well, there's one big difference with the Africa analogy. If we (The West) decay to that level, there will be no one around to provide us with air-drops of rice, wheat, medical supplies, and all the rest. Oh, I realize Africa doesn't fully depend on this, but some areas do (Haiti too) and every little bit helps. And we would get none of it.

Meanwhile, Africa will be 10 times worse than it is now if it gets that bad for us.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby frankthetank » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 00:33:52

Think about that number...

Isn't that how much that was given to the banks???

That is weird...strange...odd... :)
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 00:48:29

Think about that number... Isn't that how much that was given to the banks???

Good point. Sounds like we never had the 300 billion to give away to start with, or do I just not know what I'm talkin about?

There's a connection somewhere there though. 300 billion of the 700 bil package spent so far, and now we're asking for just that amount, 300.

I have a question for anyone who may be able to answer. I'm no expert, I just know our federal government funds our deficits with T bill auctions.

My question is, has the federal government ever, in modern history, had to go to other nations to directly ask for this much money?

If the answer is no, then I'd guess this is a major mile marker.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby lowem » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 01:55:16

Trigger event!! Trigger event!!
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Colorado-Valley » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 02:46:18

Hmmm ... maybe we should sell Alaska back to the Russians. Dire times are here ...
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 03:11:57

Sixstrings wrote:Good point. Sounds like we never had the 300 billion to give away to start with, or do I just not know what I'm talkin about?

Of course the money didn't and doesn't exist. The US was running a deficit for a long time and had nothing "in the bank" (yes, pun intended). The entire scheme relied on being able to find the money somewhere.

Now it looks like nobody is willing to finance the bailout.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 03:17:27

What I'd like to know is if this money will actually do anything or will it just go in the fat cats pockets too.

Or will it be a way of pointing the finger and saying we'd have been fine if they'd helped us since the world knows how much we've helped them (or some other type of excuse)
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Ayame » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 03:25:46

Excuse me mister but wasn't that the plan all along.

Annonce a bail-out and then try and get some chinese/middle eastern/indian suckers to finance it.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 04:10:27

Sixstrings wrote:Good point. Sounds like we never had the 300 billion to give away to start with, or do I just not know what I'm talkin about?

Of course the money didn't and doesn't exist. The US was running a deficit for a long time and had nothing "in the bank" (yes, pun intended). The entire scheme relied on being able to find the money somewhere.

Now it looks like nobody is willing to finance the bailout.
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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 04:12:48

Ayame wrote:Excuse me mister but wasn't that the plan all along.
Annonce a bail-out and then try and get some chinese/middle eastern/indian suckers to finance it.

Effectively, the same game is being played with the Saudis as was played with Congress by Paulson to get a Blank Check. You threaten a complete collapse if they DON'T Pony Up the money, instill such FEAR in them that they feel they have NO CHOICE but to do it.

Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY is terrified right now by what is going on. Money is burning up here faster than it can be printed and there is no way to establish a true value in monetary terms to ANYTHING right now. Not commodities like Oil or Food, not equities and manufaturing capability like the Chinese have but cannot use, and not even in a surplus of liquid capital like some of the Creditor nations still show on the books.

Week in and week out here, the DJIA drops another 1000 or so points, propped up periodically by the PPT but still spinning inexorably downward. Hedge Funds are trying to liquidate and EVERYONE is running for the fire exit at the same time. Katy Bar the Door! Even if they get to the exit door first though, where do you GO with the money, and in what form do you take it?

Still UNSPOKEN here in the MSM and even on this board really is what MUST be occurring now in the CDS market. Trillions of dollars in contracts that must be accounted for, and WHO holds them? I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the Chinese and the Japanese have obligations here that are extraordinary. If you do not know what those obligations are, just how is it you would assume those countries are solvent?

The Chinese and Japanese are as terrified here as everyone else, and so are the Saudi Sheiks. Good grief, at the moment the Oil they have in the ground is close to WORTHLESS, nobody can afford to buy it even at rock bottom prices that are about certainly below the cost of production in this monetary system. If they can't sell it, HOW do they feed their populations in that Desert?

The terror by itself is probably enough to get the Saudis to put up the $300B in a last ditch effort to save this system, but given the fact the CDS market runs into the TRILLIONS, this is a drop in the bucket and won't staunch the bleeding at all. Slow it down briefly is all perhaps.

The system HAS to collapse. Not just in the USA, GLOBALLY. All the currencies are tied together here, the contracts and obligations are international. It cannot hold up, its a house of cards built on quicksand in an earthquake zone, and right now the tectonic plates have shifted and this economic EARTHQUAKE is hitting 9.0 on the Richter scale. Its going to FLATTEN human civilization for a while, but it does not necessarily mean we cannot pick up the pieces afterwards. If Mother Nature does not close us out because we have passed the Tipping point, it will be possible to rebuild in the aftermath of this quake. One can only hope that the next time round, we do not choose the same path that led to this destruction again.

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Re: Its over, US asks foreign gov'ts for financial aid

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 04:42:05

The Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobs revolution has begun!
People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
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