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NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

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NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby Zardoz » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 00:37:40

We could've told them this, of course. The future is not going to turn out like Dick Cheney and his fellow neocon jackals were hoping it would:

U.S. power, influence will decline in future, report says

A government report released Thursday paints an alarming picture of an unstable future for international relations defined by waning American influence, a fragmentation of political power and intensifying struggles for increasingly scarce natural resources.

The report, "Global Trends 2025: A Transformed World," was drafted by the National Intelligence Council to better inform U.S. policymakers -- starting with the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama -- about the factors most likely to shape major international trends and conflicts through the year 2025.

"Although the United States is likely to remain the single most powerful actor, the United States' relative strength -- even in the military realm -- will decline and U.S. leverage will become more constrained," says the report, which is the fourth in a series from the Intelligence Council.

The report argues that the "international system -- as constructed following the second World War -- will be almost unrecognizable by 2025 owing to the rise of emerging powers, a globalizing economy, an historic transfer of relative wealth and economic power from West to East, and the growing influence of nonstate actors."...

...The report highlights the need for new technological innovation to provide "viable alternatives to fossil fuels" and overcome future food and water constraints. At the moment, "all current technologies are inadequate for replacing" traditional energy sources "on the scale needed," it says.

The bottom line, the report says, is that "the next 20 years of transition to a new system are fraught with risks."

"This is a story," it says, "with no clear outcome."

Sounds like somebody did their homework.
Last edited by Zardoz on Fri 21 Nov 2008, 01:17:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 00:51:23

Zardoz wrote:U.S. power, influence will decline in future, report says
A government report released Thursday paints an alarming picture of an unstable future for international relations defined by waning American influence, a fragmentation of political power and intensifying struggles for increasingly scarce natural resources.
The report, "Global Trends 2025: A Transformed World," was drafted by the National Intelligence Council to better inform U.S. policymakers -- starting with the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama -- about the factors most likely to shape major international trends and conflicts through the year 2025.
"Although the United States is likely to remain the single most powerful actor, the United States' relative strength -- even in the military realm -- will decline and U.S. leverage will become more constrained," says the report, which is the fourth in a series from the Intelligence Council.
The report argues that the "international system -- as constructed following the second World War -- will be almost unrecognizable by 2025 owing to the rise of emerging powers, a globalizing economy, an historic transfer of relative wealth and economic power from West to East, and the growing influence of nonstate actors."...
...The report highlights the need for new technological innovation to provide "viable alternatives to fossil fuels" and overcome future food and water constraints. At the moment, "all current technologies are inadequate for replacing" traditional energy sources "on the scale needed," it says.
The bottom line, the report says, is that "the next 20 years of transition to a new system are fraught with risks."
"This is a story," it says, "with no clear outcome.
Sounds like somebody did their homework.

Someone should tell the NIC that Obama pledged to make the US energy independent in 10 years. If he succeeds, it will obviate their concerns about replacing "traditional energy sources." :)
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby seldom_seen » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 01:04:37

The world in 2025 is therefore likely to find itself in the midst of a "fundamental energy transition away from oil toward natural gas, coal and other alternatives."

Uh...I thought that was the problem we have today in 2008? No worries though...we'll switch from one fossil fuel to another in 2025.

Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke have no idea what the economy is going to look like in 6 months...but these "experts" have the world all mapped out in 2025.

I take this article as the MSM trying to let us know how fkd we are with kid gloves on. These type of reports all seem to have the same feel..."look this sh*t is really bad! but not til 2050." In other words, here now you know, but don't panic please...we still need you to go out and buy stuff.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 06:53:17

China & India were #1 & #2 for most of history. Countries of smaller population could only temporarily augment their productivity by burning hydrocarbons & now those days R over.
People first, then things, then dollars.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby skeptik » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 07:07:10

"The bottom line, the report says, is that "the next 20 years of transition to a new system are fraught with risks."

Next 20 years? The global financial system is so screwed up I cant even see what its going to be like in 2 years time let alone 20. Think of everything that's happened since August last year when Bear Sterns went tits up - Wall St. IBs all gone, Iceland defaulted, commodities crashed, and a hundred and one other things that have come on so fast its hard to keep up.
Who would have forecast all that?
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby Heineken » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 15:34:54

heroineworshipper wrote:China & India were #1 & #2 for most of history. Countries of smaller population could only temporarily augment their productivity by burning hydrocarbons & now those days R over.


Overpopulation ultimately leads to environmental demolition, a process now far along, and escalating, in China and India. Environmental ruin in Chindia will lead to dieoff and the lobbing of nuclear missiles and we ALL go down.

Personally I disdain the whole concept of nationalism and national power. Is is stupid and ruinous.
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Global Trends 2025: The NIC's 2025 Project

Unread postby vaseline2008 » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 17:24:11

Here is an excerpt from the article:

The year 2025: Oil, dollar out; Russia, Islam in
The report, a year in the making, also suggests the world may complete its move away from its dependence on oil, and that the U.S. dollar, while remaining important, will decline to "first among equals" among other national currencies.


The actual government file is unavailable at this time.

NIC 2025 Project
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby NoahsDove » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 21:47:16

I don't see any major power in near future. America may decline but no one's going to replace US. The whole nonsense about China seems like a scare tactics to me. All the BRIC powers will have problems of their own. It looks like it was written by bunch of Neo-cons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... balisation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

I don't know if that report said anything about peak oil?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is so bizarre. These guys are experts? I can come up with a better report than this.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/47283
Last edited by NoahsDove on Sun 23 Nov 2008, 00:37:53, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 21:50:19

seldom_seen wrote:Uh...I thought that was the problem we have today in 2008?


You'd never know it. On CNN they were talking about how gas was dipping below $2.00 a gallon.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 21 Nov 2008, 21:51:27

NoahsDove wrote:I don't know if that report said anything about peak oil?


Do they ever? They never actually use the dreaded term, at least.
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Re: NIC report: Diminishing U.S. power and influence

Unread postby halcyon » Sat 22 Nov 2008, 06:45:41

The full report is at:


http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Gl ... Report.pdf

Their energy data is from PFC and is pretty much the usual IEA/BP BAU scenario growth.

The report does open many of the issues:

- geopolitical instability
- resource issues
- investments
- growing demand
- NO comprehensive peaking discussion, just brief mentions

However, they also say very optimistic things, even if downplayed probabilistically:

"Despite what are seen as long odds now, we cannot rule out the possibility of a transition by 2025
that would avoid the costs of an infrastructure overhaul."


I can save them the breath.

There is a snowball's chance in hell, we'll complete a complete energy infrastructure and demand/usage overhaul by 2025.

No way, not possibe, even if we dropped everything else and everybody became an energy worker.

So much for that.

On a quick reading the thing that I can agree with them is that USA is toast. It's a slow decline, but get used to being the Brits of the 21st century.

USA deserves it.

Time to start saving and acting like grown ups. Showing the rest of the world again, what America really is about and setting a good example for the 21st century. That's the American spirit I want to believe in. Super-power or not, USA has got what it takes to lead the way.

Then again, there's the possibility USA just starts on another perpetual mythical war path and off go the bombs...
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