[Sixstrings]

if we reach the point where a dollar of debt has a NEGATIVE impact on GDP The United States monetary system and government will implode. The reason for this is mathematically obvious - each additional dollar of borrowing beyond that point actually contracts GDP instead of growing it; this is, for all intents and purposes, a "black hole". It is that event that has led to the implosion of other monetary systems such as the hyperinflationary implosion of Argentina.

The above are mathematical facts, not my or anyone else's opinion.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/618-C ... g-You.html

[mefistofeles]

This phenomenon has another that you'll probably recognize: inflation.

[cipi604]

The numbers never lie.

[Sixstrings]

I think this blogger is writing about an economic theory more broad than the single component of inflation.

Like a lot of you, I sort of had my eyes opened by that "money as debt" video. I never really knew before that it's new debt that creates money.

The chart this guy made, and what he talks about, sounds a lot like peak oil theory to me. You can see on the charge that the amount of new GDP created by debt began to slide in '68, and by his estimate the terminal point is '14.

But then again, anyone can make a chart with anything -- like that pirates vs. global warming one, lol.

I'm not an economist, so I need help on this one. What do you guys think? Is it true that as the nation aquires more debt, growth diminishes exponentially?

[Revi]

I think it's interesting that it corresponds almost exactly with peak oil in the US and the slide to a negative EROEI. I'll bet that happens around 2014 as well.

The money is just the scorecard. If we try to borrow without any collateral (oil or oil we captured) then we just print money to do it.

Borrowed paper won't work unless somebody is willing to pay us to do something.

That's why I think we took Iraq. We needed some collateral to keep borrowing.

We're in real trouble now.

That market ticker article is awesome, sixstrings. It is what we suspected. There is no way to borrow our way out of this. We have to let the market crash back to earth. Back to the real value of things, whatever that is.

I often think that the problem with this country is that we only have 6 million barrels of oil per day coming out of the ground, yet we consume 20. Every person uses 3 gallons a day. We only pay for one, and borrow the money for the rest. Every day.

We need to get back to using one gallon a day. In fact we need to use a half a gallon and sell the other half gallon for all our other needs.

If we don't do this we are living beyond our means.

We've been doing this for at least 40 years.

[lowem]

Damn this is eerie. This chart reminds me of the Hubbert linearization charts. Bottom right corner = "the point of bye-bye".

[Sixstrings]

Damn this is eerie. This chart reminds me of the Hubbert linearization charts. Bottom right corner = "the point of bye-bye".

Yeah, it's like diminishing Money Returned on Money Borrowed versus EROEI.

[outcast]

Looks about right.......

[CrudeAwakening]

As I understand it, France is the only OECD country which HASN'T experienced a decreasing GDP/debt ratio over the last thirty years.

This isn't unique to the USA.

[CarlosFerreira]

As I understand it, France is the only OECD country which HASN'T experienced a decreasing GDP/debt ratio over the last thirty years.

This isn't unique to the USA.

Hmmm, weird. I would think that this has been happening all over the place. We all kinda feel the economy's been growing not because of raised output in production, but because of the increased returns of the financial system - money's being made out of a different kind of activity or, as a friend of mine says, "money's been made out of thin air!".

But... France? Really? I wonder... it just reminded me of Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", the novel that inspired "Blade Runner". It happens in an apocalyptical, post-crash LA in 2019 (I think) and somewhere in the novel, it is stated that the responsibility for the crash that wiped out all the world is France. How would you believe that?!

[virgincrude]

Six strngs, I posted this when I first read it, and yeah, it's mathematically
so.

Web Page Name

Are you referring to Chris Martenson's videos on Crash Course?

Chris Martenson

A guy who 'gets' everything and pretty much wraps it all up: carrying capacity, climate change, the economy, energy and Peak Oil .....

[CrudeAwakening]

As I understand it, France is the only OECD country which HASN'T experienced a decreasing GDP/debt ratio over the last thirty years.

This isn't unique to the USA.

Hmmm, weird. I would think that this has been happening all over the place.

Actually, I think it's only true for France if you look at private debt/GDP. I'm pretty sure that once public debt is included, they join the rest of the OECD. That would explain this supposed "anomaly".

[pedalling_faster]

Damn this is eerie. This chart reminds me of the Hubbert linearization charts. Bottom right corner = "the point of bye-bye".

life during the '60's wasn't bad, if you were
A/ not Vietnamese and
B/ not of draft age.

my parents were on a budget so i never knew what novacaine was when i got older.

it wouldn't kill us to return to the energy consumption per capita that we had in the '60's. i'm saying that thinking energy consumption per capita is higher today than it was in the '60's.

sh!t - in the '60's i had a TRAIN SET. that was living.

[Sixstrings]

virgincrude wrote:

Six strngs, I posted this when I first read it, and yeah, it's mathematically
so.

Ah, so this was discussed and I missed it. I must have had a life that week.

I'm surprised this topic didn't spark a bigger discussion when you posted it. This stuff is the financial Peak Oil.

moderators, merge threads plz