[danhower]

Hi,

I have developed a 'turbine' for slow currents, like 1 metre per second, which is not enough for most if not all existing water turbines.

I would like to hear opinions if I should go ahead with it, have it patented and look for investors.

I have developed it just because I was interested to see if I could develop something totally new. The model is working fine, and if I could contribute to save the world I would very much like to do that

Also if somebody knows about design that work with such slow currents I would be interested to hear from it.

Thanks
Dan

[jamest]

You can obtain a provisional patent very inexpensively. It is good for one year, and gives you the time to seek investors.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/provapp.htm

[Nano]

Do five things:

1. Estimate the service life.
2. Estimate the cost.
3. Estimate the yield.
4. Calculate the pay-back time
(5.) check existing patents.

You might want to do 5 first.

The service life depends on how robust the apparatus is in its working environment. It should last at least 15 years with little or no repairs or servicing.

The cost you can estimate by finding a piece of common machinery with approximately the same complexity, materials and mass, and checking the manufacturer selling price.

The yield is the electricity generated, which sells for anything above 3 to 30 USD cents per kWh, depending on taxes and credit (politics).

Now you can calculate the pay back time. This should be as low as possible. Anything below 15 years is interesting. Anything below 5 years is a winner. Anything below 2 years and I'll buy stock in your company.

[danhower]

Jamest, thanks for the link. I will check if a US patent is of any use for me.
Dan

[danhower]

Nano, thanks for the list.

Good points.

It will have moving parts, so 15 years without repair is impossible.

For the yield I will have to let the prototype run for some time. However, I am not far from your place for some time. Bloody cold here, and there is no way to spend hours in the water for tests. Also there are people just everywhere. No way to keep it secret. I have to delay this until I get back to Australia.

I have checked for patents. There is nothing similar, be it with or without patent.

[drew]

i have been pissing around with an invention too, a stirling type engine. You don't want to waste time with an Aussie patent, just a US one. I am a Canuck, and that's what I was told by a patent lawyer. He says there is a 'Paris Convention' that essentially extends patent protection world wide once you have the US one. It is not cheap, even for a provisional one. I was quoted a minimum of a grand for a patent search, and for the establishment of the provisional patent. The full deal is 12k. Good luck!

P.S. don't talk about your invention to anyone aside from very trusted friends, family, and your lawyer!!

Drew

[danhower]

Thanks drew,
12K is way beyond my means, so it will probably rest in my drawer some more time

I don't tell anyone, and the model is locked in my garage. Some good friends have seen the model, but they couldn't grasp why it is something special and totally new. I guess they never even thought about why one should make electricity from water currents.

Did you get your patent? If yes, care to give some info? Always interested...

[smallpoxgirl]

I was talking recently to a tinkerer who seemed pretty knowledgable about the patent process. His take was that patents are a big company game and are really worthless for a small entrepeneur. The problem with patents is that it's just a piece of paper. It really only has value if you're prepared to fight a long and expensive legal battle against anyone who tries to infringe it.

[drew]

The sad part, SPG, is that if you don't have one you're screwed! Something small can make you big money with a patent. Case in point, trailer holdbacks. A small local Ontario company has a patent on a trailer door holdback that might cost 5 bucks to make. It is a phenomenal piece of engineering and completely eclipses anything I've seen in twenty years in the industry. These are now showing up as oem on trailers (18 wheeler type), and are being retrofitted on all our older equipment. There are around 300,000 new trailers a year made in the US. That's 1.5 million in revenue per year, if every manufacturer specs them (they will), and pays the manufacturer 10 bucks. There is also the aftermarket to consider.

Dan, I have a prototype built, which may or may not ever run. It has very high internal friction relative to the amount of power it needs just to idle. I am halfway through building a drive for it just to turn it over so I can see if it is actually operating according to stirling principles. That is to say the hot side gets cold and the cold , hot when the engine is cranked over.

As far as patents go, I was told by the lawyer to get a working prototype first, and also (SPG is somewhat right as far as money goes) that it is almost impossible to get money for experimental engines and the like.

Drew

[Frank]

Is it like this? http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases ... hp?id=6842

[highlander]

Low flow/low head hydro generators are a great invention. Here in the states, water quality regulations prevent you from legally using one.

[danhower]

Is it like this? http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases ... hp?id=6842

No Frank, nothing like that.

[kublikhan]

I was quoted a minimum of a grand for a patent search

Ouch. Why would he charge you a grand for a patent search? You can do a quick search yourself online:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/

[drew]

Because he's a lawyer,....

and he wants my money.....

obviously!!

Believe me I spent some serious time doing my own research. I probably looked at around a thousand entries, particularly in the States, as well as those in Canada that I could find.

I expect that I could probably write a provisional application, but I don't know about the full monte.

The writing skills have definitely deteriorated since university.

Drew