[erb]

just 9 percent. ...unsustainable: Market Skeptics "manufacturing as a share of the economy has been plummeting. In 1965, manufacturing accounted for 53 percent of the economy. By 1988 it only accounted for 39 percent, and in 2004, it accounted for just 9 percent. "

in less than 45 years, while spending has gone up on (almost) all US infrastructure (military, gov, ect.)

[bratticus]

"... in 2004, it accounted for just 9 percent. " in less than 45 years, while spending has gone up on (almost) all US infrastructure (military, gov, ect.)

Who's making all the weapons?

[yesplease]

Market Skeptics "manufacturing as a share of the economy has been plummeting. In 1965, manufacturing accounted for 53 percent of the economy. By 1988 it only accounted for 39 percent, and in 2004, it accounted for just 9 percent. "
in less than 45 years, while spending has gone up on (almost) all US infrastructure (military, gov, ect.)

Wait, what? Business Week has manufacturing at ~25% of the economy in 1965, and they even link a source for their data. Not that manufacturing as a percentage of GDP hasn't dropped, but according to Business Week the manufacturing Sector in the U.S. has grown since 1965, just not as fast as the rest of the economy.

[Nickel]

"... in 2004, it accounted for just 9 percent. "

in less than 45 years, while spending has gone up on (almost) all US infrastructure (military, gov, ect.)

Who's making all the weapons?

What do you think the manufacturing is? It's pretty much down to cars and military applications. When was the last time you saw a household consumer product made in North America?

[Nickel]

Paul Craig Roberts, who was Undersecretary of the Treasury in the Reagan admin, has been writing about this for years now. The West in general and the US in particular has been off-shoring not just jobs, but technical know-how and even facilities to China for decades. It used to be the Nazis would take over your country and move all they could to Germany... now you don't even need to conquer. You just need greedy corporate executives who can't see any further than the end of their own yacht. So now much of our manufacturing and even our technical knowledge is gone, and we chose to let it happen. We agreed to it. So kids are graduating with engineering degrees and technical degrees and there are no jobs for them. Soon it won't be the Chinese moving here anymore; we'll be moving there for the jobs that used to be ours. I've been reading about this for four or five years now. It's only "news" because no one wanted to hear it.

[dsula]

Paul Craig Roberts, who was Undersecretary of the Treasury in the Reagan admin, has been writing about this for years now. The West in general and the US in particular has been off-shoring not just jobs, but technical know-how and even facilities to China for decades.

Sad but true. That's what pisses me off about this off-shoring. The loss of know-how.

You just need greedy corporate executives who can't see any further than the end of their own yacht. So now much of our manufacturing and even our technical knowledge is gone, and we chose to let it happen. We agreed to it.

Not greedy executives. Greedy consumers made it happen.
Actually that is not correct either. It's shortsightedness that enabled this.

So kids are graduating with engineering degrees and technical degrees and there are no jobs for them.

Not true. There's a shortage of engineers. That's also part of the reason for off-shoring. If I can't find a good software engineer locally I'm forced to find him somewhere else.

[dsula]

My friend owns inexpensive machine tools from from China from Harbor Freight that he can use to build just about anything, except the most complex high tech toys. We in the West have given away the means for basic productions. We seriously believe the world can not live without our fancy patents and other intellectual property. Boy do we have a surprise in store.

Yeah, that's true. Even manufacturing basic items requires certain know-how that's usually passed on from employee to employee in a business. Once it's gone, it's gone. Chances some dude who never worked in a related field just starts some injection mold business is small.

[carbniky]

If there was someone who was TRYING to destroy America and get it to fall apart, is there something they could have done that was more effective to crash the system?

No.

they have been doing their job very well.

[Nickel]

Not greedy executives. Greedy consumers made it happen.

No, I don't accept that. We used to buy, and buy big, long before things were off-shored to China. There was a booming economy in North America, and we produced most of what we, and much what everyone else, needed and used. The only reason that stuff started being made in China and sold back to us was that the guys running the companies wanted to keep more of the money by stopping paying us, and paying them a pittance instead. Less expensive goods became available, and there WERE no domestic goods one could choose instead. It was one-two punch delivered by the same fist at the same time.

So kids are graduating with engineering degrees and technical degrees and there are no jobs for them.

Not true. There's a shortage of engineers. That's also part of the reason for off-shoring. If I can't find a good software engineer locally I'm forced to find him somewhere else.

Not according to Paul Craig Roberts.

[bratticus]

Not greedy executives. Greedy consumers made it happen.

No, I don't accept that. We used to buy, and buy big, long before things were off-shored to China. There was a booming economy in North America, and we produced most of what we, and much what everyone else, needed and used.

Didn't that just make the US use up its natural (petroleum) resources faster? Why move oil over the ocean, turn it into goods and ship it back?

[Nickel]

Not greedy executives. Greedy consumers made it happen.

No, I don't accept that. We used to buy, and buy big, long before things were off-shored to China. There was a booming economy in North America, and we produced most of what we, and much what everyone else, needed and used.

Didn't that just make the US use up its natural (petroleum) resources faster? Why move oil over the ocean, turn it into goods and ship it back?

US was a net importer by the 80s, if I'm not mistaken. Where China (and Japan) gets the oil from is their problem. They get to charge us for it and make a little profit on top, I'm sure.

[Tyler_JC]

We only became a significant oil importer in the 1970s after US oil production peaked.

Regardless, it's not oil alone that lead to the weakening of the US manufacturing sector.

[davep]

I agree that the Captains of Industry helped the shift towards China.

I used to work at Philips, and they built a components plant in China in the nineties, using some of their finest engineers to share their knowledge. They had to agree a 50-50 share, with the share becoming entirely Chinese after a few years.

They accepted, because everyone else was doing the same thing. Now, we see the results of this idiocy.

[bratticus]

US was a net importer by the 80s, if I'm not mistaken. Where China (and Japan) gets the oil from is their problem. They get to charge us for it and make a little profit on top, I'm sure.

klew http://www.google.com/search?q=china+russia+pipeline