[ReverseEngineer]

The first of many to come, Bernie Madoff has been arrested and charged with running a $50B Ponzi Scheme thru his Hedge Fund.

Bernard Madoff, a quiet force on Wall Street for decades, was arrested and charged on Thursday with allegedly running a $50 billion "Ponzi scheme" in what may rank among the biggest fraud cases ever.

The former chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market is best known as the founder of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, the closely-held market-making firm he launched in 1960. But he also ran a hedge fund that U.S. prosecutors said racked up $50 billion of fraudulent losses.

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081212/bs_ ... off_arrest

Unlike that quicker swindler whose name I forget now who dropped out of the Hedge Fund Biz a month or so ago, Bernie got caught with his pants down as his investors wanted to liquidate and WHOOPS the money isn't there!

Now of course, the entire business of securitized mortgages was one big Ponzi scheme and swindle which all the Banks and their managers were a part of, so eventually here one can figure we will have a parade of these guys marched down Wall Street on the way to the Federal Penitentiary. Except do we really have the money to run such places anymore?

Bernie is faced with 20 years in the slammer and a measely $5M fine for stealing $50B? What is that about? Anyhow, since he is presumably dead broke now since all his assets are frozen, he will have a hard time paying even the chump change of $5M. How mcuh coal do you think he can dig out of a mine by hand for the next 20 years at age 70? Somehow I doubt its $5M worth.

How long before we resurrect the Guillotine? The folks whose money he stole here are from the mega rich class themselves, don't you think they will want some retribution past putting Bernie in a comfy Fed Prison for White Collar Scumbags?

I think your average American STILL does not understand exactly how he was swindled out of his life savings. Pretty soon I think people will start getting a clue on this.

No doubt, for the working man, life is going to get very difficult soon. However, the idea that the rich are going to escape retribution and sit this one out is ludicrous. Heads are going to start rolling on Wall Street quite soon. Literally. Set up some Pins, its going to be a Bowling Alley out there.

Reverse Engineer

[seldom_seen]

Sounds like Madoff lost some of the wrong people's money? If this type of prosecution was applied across the industry they could just put a fence around lower Manhattan and give everyone orange jumpsuits.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Bernie is faced with 20 years in the slammer and a measely $5M fine for stealing $50B? What is that about?

Currently Madoff is charged with only one count of securities fraud; as more facts emerge, he could face additional charges and fines. There is also a separate civil suit which will likely disgorge Madoff of all profits/gains from the fraud.

BTW, according to the firm's website, Madoff himself stresses that he has "a personal interest in maintaining the unblemished record of value, fair-dealing, and high ethical standards that has always been the firm's hallmark."

[shakespear1]

Code: Select all

Bernie is faced with 20 years in the slammer and a measely $5M fine for stealing $50B? What is that about?

With good behavior he will be out in 2 yrs. and that will be the end of it. I think things like this were once upon a time called show trials.

There's thousands of these Bernie's out there.

Seen the latest on Rummi and torture? I put my money on nothing happening.

[ReverseEngineer]

Sounds like Madoff lost some of the wrong people's money? If this type of prosecution was applied across the industry they could just put a fence around lower Manhattan and give everyone orange jumpsuits.

No joke, that one has a high probability of occuring. They even made a movie about it a while back, "Escape from New York". Manhattan Island was turned into a Penal Colony. Snake Plisken may be looking for a Kidnapped George Bush or Barack Obama held for ransom in some NYC slum pretty soon.

Reverse Engineer

[ReverseEngineer]

Code: Select all

Bernie is faced with 20 years in the slammer and a measely $5M fine for stealing $50B? What is that about?

With good behavior he will be out in 2 yrs. and that will be the end of it. I think things like this were once upon a time called show trials.

There's thousands of these Bernie's out there.

Seen the latest on Rummi and torture? I put my money on nothing happening.

I don't think you are talking "show trials" with this scenario.

The money lost and stolen here is NOT by and large the money of your average american, though to be sure plenty of Pension Funds are bankrupted. The fact is though that over the last decade wealth has been consolidated into the hands of a fairly small class of Americans, and it is this money that has been Gambled away in both the SIVs and the CDS and CDO markets. Rich folks looking to get still richer and gambling in a market worth over $60T, and there are many more LOSERS here in the game then there are winners.

Now they are waking up as they try to liquidate their holdings in the Hedge Funds, and they are finding that BILLIONS they thought they were worth no longer even EXIST. Those at the top of the food chain with some power in the Goobermint are turning the Dogs of the FBI and the IRS on EACH OTHER. The battle for survival up at the top right now is even more intense than the battle for survival at the bottom. There is no money left to steal from the Taxpayers, and so these folks are now engaged in the battle of blaming each OTHER for who lost what and who stole what from whom?

These aren't "show trials". The folks who will get a visit from the FBI are those on the WRONG end of the battle here, and they are many. Bernie isn't the last one here who will get HIT, though he is a pretty big Shyster having been Chairman of Nasdaq. There are just THOUSANDS of guys involved in the business of Stock sales to wealthy "low hanging fruit" who have lost less than $50B, but well over $100M. Right now, every single one of those guys reading this story about Bernie is living in absolute TERROR. They are no doubt trying to run for the hills, jumping in their Yachts and hoping to escape to a South Sea Island somewhere.

The trials are only the tip of the iceberg here. I bet you dollars to doughnuts quite a few folks aren't waiting for the "Law" to exact retribution. Some of these Stockbrokers will WISH they got a visit from the FBI. They will be meeting their maker in much more direct fashion, and one has to suspect that the last days won;t be pleasant ones for them. That is JUSTICE.

Reverse Engineer

[shakespear1]

Well that explains something I have noticed here in Poland lately. Artists coming here that I WOULD NEVER in this world imagine that they would come here.

This morning there is an ad on TV for ....... Woody Allen.

To me that is a signal. A signal that he is short on money. Now to top it off who is he coming with ??? With HIS band!!!! Woody Allen and a band, first time I hear he has anything to do with music !!!!! It could simply be my ignorance though.

However ,He MUST really be desperate to be looking for money here. I would love to know what will be the turn out as I don't think Poles have deep pockets today for this sort of thing.

Prove me wrong Allen.

[ReverseEngineer]

Well that explains something I have noticed here in Poland lately. Artists coming here that I WOULD NEVER in this world imagine that they would come here.

This morning there is an ad on TV for ....... Woody Allen.

To me that is a signal. A signal that he is short on money. Now to top it off who is he coming with ??? With HIS band!!!! Woody Allen and a band, first time I hear he has anything to do with music !!!!! It could simply be my ignorance though.

However ,He MUST really be desperate to be looking for money here. I would love to know what will be the turn out as I don't think Poles have deep pockets today for this sort of thing.

Prove me wrong Allen.

Woody Allen has been playing the Saxophone for years in NYC Jazz Clubs. Its his hobby. I'm not sure this is related to a direct need for money, though it might be.

Reverse Engineer

[EndOfGrowth]

How long before we resurrect the Guillotine?

Reverse Engineer

Sooner than we think

http://www.remnantofgod.org/guillotines.htm

[ReverseEngineer]

Interesting development in the Bernie case. One of the investors fleeced here was the LOEB FAMILY. They are one of the founding banking families of the Fed.

Madoff’s clients, which reportedly include Lombardier, the Loeb Family, Banco Santander, and a slew of charities, will likely seek civil lawsuits or other legal action to try to recover the money they’ve invested.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/12/1 ... ets32.html

This is getting more interesting all the time

Reverse Engineer

[idiom]

How long before we resurrect the Guillotine?

Reverse Engineer

Sooner than we think

http://www.remnantofgod.org/guillotines.htm

LOL @ theologists who can't conceive of the America disappearing *before* the end of the world.

[ReverseEngineer]

I almost wet my pants when I read this one:

Access, a New York-based investment firm, said in a letter to clients yesterday that funds including LUXALPHA SICAV- American Selection invested with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC and that it’s working with counsel to assess the situation. Access called Madoff’s arrest “a shocking development.”

The LUXALPHA SICAV fund had $1.4 billion in assets as of Nov. 17, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Investors in the fund include Rothschild & Cie Gestion, a unit of the Rothschild group, through its Elite fund.

Article: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

Its not JUST the Loeb Family that Bernie Bilked here. Bernie lost ROTHSCHILD money also!

Of course, a few billion is chump change to the Rothschilds, but this definitely indicates that the House of Cards that built the Fed is coming apart at the seams. If BOTH the Loebs and the Rothschilds were invested in this scheme and they did not have the savvy to see it for a Ponzi scheme, then what would you think of all the rest of their "investments" and holdings?

They HAVE to know that the whole business is a Ponzi scheme, and they HAVE to have colluded in this one to keep it working so long. Its buried down there deep in the contracts, but I guarantee you that the only way Bernie kept this particular Ponzi scheme running for 30 years was his connections to the Loebs and the Rothschilds.

Good grief. The Rothschilds are finally going DOWN. NO wonder the financial world is in chaos.

Reverse Engineer

[Snowrunner]

Good grief. The Rothschilds are finally going DOWN. NO wonder the financial world is in chaos.

I am sure the blood has thinned a bit over the centuries, but I am thining you're calling this a bit too early, they probably still have enough "hard assets" to reboot once the dust has settled.

In the Land of the blind, the one eyed is King, and likewise, in the land of no more financial system the ones with the hard assets are King. You can bet that the Rothschields won't be the ones with no assets.

[ReverseEngineer]

In the Land of the blind, the one eyed is King, and likewise, in the land of no more financial system the ones with the hard assets are King. You can bet that the Rothschields won't be the ones with no assets.

In a land where there are assets, this would be true. But what about the world where ALL asset classes are being rnedered valueless at the same time? what of the world where there is NO safe haven for physical wealth? In such a world, who REALLY is King?

The Rothschilds and their heirs are lost, for they gave up their Spirit for physical wealth over the centuries, and now it is all gone. They are without hope, without recourse, Damned to Everlasting Torment Burning int he Fires of Hell.

Really my friend, the biggest of the big are going down here, quite spectacularly in fact. Entier NATIONS are going down. This is IT, the final collapse of this monetary system. Its NOT those with "Assets" who are the One-Eyed Kings. It is those who hold the Spirit. The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth.

Reverse Engineer

[Snowrunner]

In a land where there are assets, this would be true. But what about the world where ALL asset classes are being rnedered valueless at the same time? what of the world where there is NO safe haven for physical wealth? In such a world, who REALLY is King?

I am not talking about Gold & Silver and the like. Despite what many here think, if the system does completely go tits up they will be worth zero. I am talking about buildings, land etc.

The Rothschilds and their heirs are lost, for they gave up their Spirit for physical wealth over the centuries, and now it is all gone. They are without hope, without recourse, Damned to Everlasting Torment Burning int he Fires of Hell.

If they hae really given up their REAL posessions then yes, they are done. Not sure how far their greed has driven them, it's possible, how likely though? No idea. I would think that some of the "old guard" are wiser than that, but then, I am daily reminded just how stupid we humans are when it comes to greed.

Really my friend, the biggest of the big are going down here, quite spectacularly in fact. Entier NATIONS are going down. This is IT, the final collapse of this monetary system. Its NOT those with "Assets" who are the One-Eyed Kings. It is those who hold the Spirit. The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth.

More the cunning and ruthless... If the system really completely self destructs (okay okay, there were many who had a hand in it) then forget such things as "rule of law" for the foreseeable future. The ones in the bunker may just have the last laugh.

[ReverseEngineer]

I am not talking about Gold & Silver and the like. Despite what many here think, if the system does completely go *** up they will be worth zero. I am talking about buildings, land etc.

Well, say they own the title outright to a huge tract of English farmland, and the Mansion on it. How do they pay the Taxes on it? Say you own a skyscraper in Manhattan that USED to have 1000 stockbrokers in it making millions each but now just has a million cockroaches in it making nothing each? How do you pay the taxes on that building?

The Rothschilds and their heirs are lost, for they gave up their Spirit for physical wealth over the centuries, and now it is all gone. They are without hope, without recourse, Damned to Everlasting Torment Burning int he Fires of Hell.

If they hae really given up their REAL posessions then yes, they are done. Not sure how far their greed has driven them, it's possible, how likely though? No idea. I would think that some of the "old guard" are wiser than that, but then, I am daily reminded just how stupid we humans are when it comes to greed.

Really my friend, the biggest of the big are going down here, quite spectacularly in fact. Entier NATIONS are going down. This is IT, the final collapse of this monetary system. Its NOT those with "Assets" who are the One-Eyed Kings. It is those who hold the Spirit. The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth.

More the cunning and ruthless... If the system really completely self destructs (okay okay, there were many who had a hand in it) then forget such things as "rule of law" for the foreseeable future. The ones in the bunker may just have the last laugh.

No doubt they have Palatial Bunkers that Rocc would have a Wet Dream over. However, as Hitler proved, its darn hard to Rule the World from your Bunker. LOL. What is most interesting here is to see how it will unravel without functioning currency with which to Bribe politicians and pay soldiers. Its about Power now, and can these folks really hold power without the money? Somehow I doubt it.

[Snowrunner]

Well, say they own the title outright to a huge tract of English farmland, and the Mansion on it. How do they pay the Taxes on it? Say you own a skyscraper in Manhattan that USED to have 1000 stockbrokers in it making millions each but now just has a million cockroaches in it making nothing each? How do you pay the taxes on that building?

Skyscrapers etc. are a "lost asset", the only reason they are worth anything is because it is in a location where may want to work / be. If that goes away then there goes the value.

The tract of arrabal land though is a different story. Taxes? That would be a secondary concern, if we have meltdown the State won't have the resources to collect.

No doubt they have Palatial Bunkers that Rocc would have a Wet Dream over. However, as Hitler proved, its darn hard to Rule the World from your Bunker. LOL.

What is most interesting here is to see how it will unravel without functioning currency with which to Bribe politicians and pay soldiers. Its about Power now, and can these folks really hold power without the money? Somehow I doubt it.

Who DOES hold power if you take the currency away? The one who has the baked beans.

If the system completely collapses than any kind of rule that currently exists will vanish.

I guess taking a look at Afghanistan and the tribal culture there will be a good "starting point" to see what could develope.

And yeah, you can't rule from a bunker, but you can wait out the bad times and then rise from the ashes and take on whatever is left and re-establish your power base.

If you presume that Rothschields etc. are aware of Peak Oil, Global Climate Change and the dieoff that has to happen (and want to go into a conspiracy theory) then you could easily conclude that they engineered the downfall and destruction of the current power structure in order to rise from their bunkers later and re-establish themselves directly as the ruler of the new (and much smaller) world.

[EnergyUnlimited]

The trials are only the tip of the iceberg here. I bet you dollars to doughnuts quite a few folks aren't waiting for the "Law" to exact retribution. Some of these Stockbrokers will WISH they got a visit from the FBI. They will be meeting their maker in much more direct fashion, and one has to suspect that the last days won;t be pleasant ones for them. That is JUSTICE.

Many of them will disappear somewhere in South America or in Far East and all their tracks will be lost.
They will certainly manage to salvage parts of their fortunes as well.

Those will be the lucky ones.
And their grandchildren will come back to become your overlords in Brave New World.

[ReverseEngineer]

Many of them will disappear somewhere in South America or in Far East and all their tracks will be lost. They will certainly manage to salvage parts of their fortunes as well. Those will be the lucky ones. And their grandchildren will come back to become your overlords in Brave New World.

Quite a few Nazis took off for Argentina and used stolen Gold to set up an economy down there. Are they anybody's "Overlords" now? I'm sure some of the more forward thinking banksters have great bunkers, even better than Rocc's. However, I seriously doubt any of them will emerge from those bunkers in 50 years to become Overlords, any more than I think Rocc will.

None of them who emerge from those bunkers will be MY overlord of course, I will long since be quite dead. Will they be the overlords of my Spiritual descendants here on the Last Great Frontier? If there was some Oil to be got at an EROEI that was positive perhaps, but my guess would be that when they emerge in 50 years, the capability of exploiting any oil left up there will be quite gone, and in any event not worth the effort and money necessary to pull it out of the ground.

Who will be left up here then, and who will exploit them and for what? The only people who will live up here are just the kind of people who lived up here before Big Oil came to Rule the World. A hardy bunch of people who can take the cold and who help each other survive. Neither of us will be around to see how it actually does play out EU, but meanwhile we can argue the point here on Peak Oil until the internet goes dark. After that, we can argue it in the Great Beyond.

[ReverseEngineer]

[The tract of arrabal land though is a different story. Taxes? That would be a secondary concern, if we have meltdown the State won't have the resources to collect.

Forget the Taxes problem for a moment then. If said Rothschild owns a tract of arable land in the UK, with 65 million people stuffed on that island and no MONEY to control an army, just HOW would said Rothschild hold onto that land or any food that grows on it?

You only own that which you can control, and if you do not have MONEY to buy soldiers and buy loyalty, protecting your land is a mighty difficult thing to do. When a roving bunch of East End Londoners comes a calling, do you think even if Jacob Rothschild starts showering them with Gold Coins from his basement they are going to leave him on his land with his food? Who has the Power in this situation?

Who knows who it is? It might be some Clerk or some ex-Auto Worker or some local Drug Ganglord. The power will change many times here in the spin down, but to be sure those who are in power NOW will not be the ones in power at the end of it all. The Evil will all consume each other in the persistent grab for power, until they are all burning in hell. At the end of the the Meek Shall Inherit the Earth.