[smallpoxgirl]

I took my car to WalMart Friday night to get my snow tires put on. The guy manages to break one of my wheel studs. So I took the car to Les Schwab. It's a $1 part and takes 3 minutes tops to fix. They want $50, but hey I guess it's better than crawling under the car in the snow so fine. The guy jacks my car up takes the tires off. He comes out with this really concerned look on his face and tells me my brakes are "ready to be done" and do I want him to do a quote. I'm thinking he means brake pads, which the car probably does need. He comes back with this estimate for $800 to replace all the rotors and the calipers. Granted a lot of women might have believed they needed new rotors, but when the car is 15 years old, has a blown air bag that hasn't been replaced, and the gas gauge doesn't work, you might want to aim a little lower than $800 as your fraud target. This is the main reason I'm such a fan of internet shopping. I feel like any time I walk into a physical store, these sales vultures see another mark walking in the door and start trying to figure which piece of overpriced useless crap they can con me into buying today.

So what I'm wondering. How much of our economy is comprised of con artists selling us crap we don't need? It goes all the way from the guy at McDonalds who spends all day trying to convince people to supersize their fries all the way up to the corner office where they're hard at work designing products to break exactly one day after the 30 day warranty runs out. I've ranted at length about how medicine in the US has passed the point of diminishing returns and cutting healthcare expenditures by about 80% would be expected statistically to increase our life expectancy. I wonder if that isn't true of the broader economy. Am I crazy? Is it possible that the GDP could drop 80% and we would actually get more useful outputs from the economy? Or is the eCONomy even more resistant to the depression than the real economy? Let's hear your stories too about your experiences with the eCONomy. Those of you that have traveled, how do the eCONomies of different countries compare?

[Rabbit]

New pads cost about $30 per pair and take about 30 minutes to install. I always keep an eye on the pads and replace them before they damage the rotors. Replacing the rotors is a lot more work. $800 to install four new rotors and pads sounds about right for a shop.

[smallpoxgirl]

There's nothing wrong with my rotors or calipers. The pads didn't wear through. He just wanted to sell me a bunch of crap I don't need.

[Quinny]

It's a fine line between good service and sales and trying to Con customers. I recently went to a pub near my new workplace, and the barman there was great. He upsold when he could, but I didn't feel under pressure, my colleague however felt the guy was too 'nosy'. Only place I've really been conned is by suppliers on Ebay.

[Rabbit]

There's nothing wrong with my rotors or calipers. The pads didn't wear through. He just wanted to sell me a bunch of crap I don't need.

That is sad that people would do this. I'd like to see people that pull that kind of thing be investigated. If found guilty they should be put into a prison for 5 years. Not the type where you sit on your ass all day but a jail where you have to do hard labor for 8 hours a day.

I say that we take a pretty young girl, put her in an older car with new rotors and calipers but with a single pair of worn pads. If the estimate comes back for anything more than a set of pads the jerks should be arrested that day!

[smallpoxgirl]

Only place I've really been conned is by suppliers on Ebay.

Really? Every time I run into a salesman in a physical store I feel like I'm on Bourbon Street and the guy is about to try selling me a watch. Most of them know almost nothing about the product their selling and count on you knowing even less and being easily guiled.

[smallpoxgirl]

That is sad that people would do this. I'd like to see people that pull that kind of thing be investigated

I'm with you, but I think the problem runs much deeper than that. Before the guy came out, I was noticing the poster they have in their lobby about the Les Schwab brake repair "policies". Basically their policy comes down to, "If we touch your brake system, we're replacing every part in the system except the brake lines and maybe the master cylinder." I'm sure the guy took some fancy ASE certification test so he can make up fancy answers about why all my brake parts need replaced. Probably pull out some factor manual and explain that my rotors have 0.005 in run out and the factor spec is that they should be less than 0.003. Its the same way that a doctor is perfectly justified in sending a patient with a cold off to get a sinus CT. It seems to me that it's an endemic problem of a world populated with "consumers" who have too little knowledge and too much money and "experts" who get paid based on being able to convince you that you need to super size your order (metaphorically). I wonder if "consumers" don't get a bit more discriminating and skeptical once their discretionary income starts to shrink.

[Ludi]

So what I'm wondering. How much of our economy is comprised of con artists selling us crap we don't need?

My entire livelihood is based on crap we don't need - entertainment.

Most of us would be out of a job if our economy was based on needs, not wants.

[smallpoxgirl]

My entire livelihood is based on crap we don't need - entertainment.

I definitely think entertainment is something we need. Whether we need to pay for it maybe is a different story.

Most of us would be out of a job if our economy was based on needs, not wants.

I'm not talking so much about needs vs. wants. I'm talking more about stuff in the economy that is intended to create churn without actually satisfying any needs or wants. I don't want new brake calipers. I don't want products that are designed to break. I don't want to buy three different Microsoft operating systems for my PC or to end up buying two different copies of the same album, but I get trapped into it because of the licensing CONtracts.

Clearly these con games are a big part of the economy. They represent a lot of jobs. If they went away though, that would mean we got the same amount of goods and services in the real economy without having to do collectively as much work. Right?

[TommyJefferson]

...it's an endemic problem of a world populated with "consumers" who have too little knowledge and too much money and "experts" who get paid based on being able to convince you...

That's it I think.

Cons are encouraged by their successes. They are successful because our E-Z money over the last 15 years makes people not care so much. It's self-reinforcing.

Lean times will reduce people's tolerance for conning.

[Ludi]

Clearly these con games are a big part of the economy. They represent a lot of jobs. If they went away though, that would mean we got the same amount of goods and services in the real economy without having to do collectively as much work. Right?

I'm not sure, though. If we're working less because everything is of high quality and lasts forever, would we have enough employment to afford things that don't last, like food? We'd all be a lot poorer, I think, but with loads of free time! I guess we could grow our food in our free time...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

A new set of rotors will cost you $60 each, pads and shoes another $70 each plus say 1.5 hours labour and that should come to around $370 before taxes. and that is in Canadian.

I too am tired of these con artists. I took my car recently to a mechanic cause the cops told me to get it inspected because the brake light on the dash was on. This con artist told me it would cost me $250 plus labour...

I went to another mechanic cause I sensed this guy was trying to rip me off and found one I felt comfortable with. As I was explaining my issue, he grabbed a jug popped the hood and put two table spoons of liquid under the hood and damn if the light didn't go out.

I, however, do know how to replace brakes and rotors... I just can't bleed brake lines by myself and from now on I will not believe anyone who won't show me exactly why on my car that something needs to be done.

[Jotapay]

I think the majority of businesses attempt to over-sell a more expensive or unnecessary product when a cheaper product or none at all will suffice. People are so indoctrinated by advertisers and businesses to accept this practice that frugality actually has a negative stigma associated with it.

[MarkJ]

One of my tenants had me check out her car since she got a very high estimate for brake work.

When I checked it out, she needed rotors, pads, two rear calipers, rear brake hoses, new steel brake lines, front wheel bearing, strut and an ABS sensor.

I performed all the labor, plus provided the brake lines, fittings and brake fluid free of charge.


From my experience in the HVAC/R and automotive repair industries, I have tons of horror stories about pushy salesmen, bait and switch promotions, poor service and people charging for unnecessary installations, unnecessary parts and/or charging for parts not replaced & services not performed. People often fall for bait and switch free inspection, free extras type promotions.


Since you can sometimes make thousands of dollars in a day installing hydronic heating equipment, it's real common for pushy salesman types to condemn old equipment, push new equipment and cut corners left right and center to put more money in their pockets. Cash Discount of course.

When we're called for a second, third, fourth... opinion, we're often the only installers not condemning existing equipment.

[vision-master]

From my experience in the HVAC/R and automotive repair industries, I have tons of horror stories about pushy salesmen, bait and switch promotions, poor service and people charging for unnecessary installations, unnecessary parts and/or charging for parts not replaced & services not performed. People often fall for bait and switch free inspection, free extras type promotions.

Customer:
My A/C unit dosen't work, maybe I need some freon!

Service guy:
Nope, the condensing unit is shot and will have to be replaced. We can do that for $1,500

The REAL problem:
The coil was plugged up with leaves. 5 min with the garden hose and it's fixed!:razz:

[davep]

It's can be just a case of poor diagnosis. Replace the lot and it'll be fine. This tends not to work in the IT industry though, hence me making lots of money filling the gaps between the in-house experts' knowledge. You get big problems (and money) when no-one sees the bigger picture

[cube]

...
So what I'm wondering. How much of our economy is comprised of con artists selling us crap we don't need?
...

I had a friend who was addicted to ebay.com
He was selling a set of golf clubs and he asked me to login and place a bid on the auction to push the price up.
Sure enough the current bidders took the bait.
They decide to outbid me and now they are paying more for the same product.
My friend explained to me with wry grin, "It's psychological manipulation."

Does that count as a CON-job?

[Quinny]

What do you think?

[smallpoxgirl]

Does that count as a CON-job?

Sure. The whole ebay manipulation thing is kinda interesting. The more difficult it is to value an item, the more susceptible they are to that sort of manipulation. Long before there was EBay, stock market manipulators ran the same game. They'd buy a stock with one broker and sell it with another at the same time. People would say "Ohh! Interest in this stock is picking up." and they'd start to buy it and it would rally.

[aldente]

So what I'm wondering. How much of our economy is comprised of con artists selling us crap we don't need?

What do you do to make a buck? Most people are broke and the reason why no better jobs are offered is because there are none out there. So you sell... it is symptomatic rather than subject to look down from upon.