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From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

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From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby seahorse » Wed 17 Dec 2008, 22:59:48

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There will be new meaning given to the term "African American" and it won't have anything to do with race, just pure old economics. In the 1990s, a book was written called "The Coming Anarchy" which hypothesized that the poverty and political problems suffered in Africa would soon be "exported" to the west due to systemic problems of overpopulation and scarcity of resources - sound familiar?
West Africa is becoming the symbol of worldwide demographic, environmental, and societal stress, in which criminal anarchy emerges as the real "strategic" danger. Disease, overpopulation, unprovoked crime, scarcity of resources, refugee migrations, the increasing erosion of nation-states and international borders, and the empowerment of private armies, security firms, and international drug cartels are now most tellingly demonstrated through a West African prism. West Africa provides an appropriate introduction to the issues, often extremely unpleasant to discuss, that will soon confront our civilization. To remap the political earth the way it will be a few decades hence--as I intend to do in this article--I find I must begin with West Africa.

The coming anarchy

Its too bad no one listened, no one, that is, but a few "cassandras".

Now, with a depression bearing down on the world, scarcity clearly in everyone's sights, a cassandra in the US military think tanks is trying to head the warning of the "Coming Anarchy", that America may soon look like Zimbabwe, yes, that's a quote.
What’s the worst that could happen?
That’s a question that James Rickards spends a lot of time pondering these days, as he sifts through the national security implications of the financial crisis facing the United States.
Rickards will lay out his worst case scenarios in a lecture sponsored by the Navy and the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Policy tonight. And his forecasts aren’t for the faint of heart.

Rickards calls it the “A to Z” problem: What are the threats that could make the U.S. economy look less like America and more like Zimbabwe? He sees them everywhere – in the Chinese ownership of vast amounts of American debt, in Russia’s increased centralization of its economy, in Al Qaeda’s long-established fascination with damaging the U.S. economy.

In many ways, Rickards is the ultimate bear. He’s not just thinking about whether the stock market will decline, but whether or not the stock market will survive.
All that puts Rickards decidedly outside mainstream economic and political thinking in America. But he does have an influential audience: the United States intelligence and defense communities.

His lecture comes as part of an annual “Rethinking Seminar” produced by the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. Rickards argues that government is not doing nearly enough to prepare for the worst. “Here’s the policy problem for the United States,” he said in an interview. “We have experts in defense and intelligence, and huge depth in capital markets experience at the Fed and at Treasury. But they’re separated by the Potomac River. And they’re not talking to each other.”

Rickards came by his economic experience the hard way. He was the general counsel at Long Term Capital Management, the hedge fund that collapsed in spectacular fashion in the late 1990s and nearly took the global economy along with it. That near-economic death experience gave him a healthy appreciation for risk. Today, he’s the senior managing director for research at Omnis, an applied research firm.

Four of the scenarios keep him up at night:

The Bait Effect
Terrorists, and al Qaeda in particular, are fascinated with the idea of destroying the U.S. economy. Rickards worries that the economic meltdown in the United States could serve as bait of sorts for a terrorist attack, as plotters calculate that a strike now could have a “force multiplier” effect because of the already skittish U.S. stock market.

The China Syndrome
The Chinese own more than $500 billion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds, and billons more in the debt of other U.S. entities such as those held by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. And a general sense of mutually assured financial destruction keeps them from wielding that debt like a weapon: if the Chinese dumped U.S. debt on the global market, their own holdings of U.S. debt would decline in value, the U.S. economy would be damaged, ultimately harming the Chinese economy by reducing American ability to buy more Chinese goods.

Four concerns
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby neocone » Wed 17 Dec 2008, 23:28:55

This is a bit simplistic... White European educated populations of the US do not have the behavior of neglected black teenagers with AK47s in Sierra Leone or other hellish place.

The PC nature of that article is horrid. Countries in Europe had to face worst during WWII and some cities like Warsaw were completely razed, and their inhabitants worst off than people in the worst parts of Western Africa (WITHOUT any Marshall plan) yet were able to rebuild in a few years. And I repeat without benefit of a cornucopian consumer society of plenty of energy.

There is ethnic INEQUALITY no matter what the liberals say and some populations will have a high degree of resistance to adverse effects (I will throw in the Japanese and Chinese too as some will ready to call me a Nazi) whereas some other will buckle under overpopulation into an orgy of infighting and genocide (Rwanda is a poster child).

Occam's razor dictates there is no "conspiracy" of any kind... things just happen spontaneously.

I expect a simply more segregated world where "bad parts" (like the bad parts of town i.e ghettos) are to be avoided and their inhabitants will long be banned from coming into the good parts since the "good parts" will be barely able to feed themselves.

A few nukes will also solve some issues in some cases. Not all atomic weapons are bad :twisted:
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby americandream » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 03:27:47

neocone wrote:This is a bit simplistic... White European educated populations of the US do not have the behavior of neglected black teenagers with AK47s in Sierra Leone or other hellish place.

The PC nature of that article is horrid. Countries in Europe had to face worst during WWII and some cities like Warsaw were completely razed, and their inhabitants worst off than people in the worst parts of Western Africa (WITHOUT any Marshall plan) yet were able to rebuild in a few years. And I repeat without benefit of a cornucopian consumer society of plenty of energy.

There is ethnic INEQUALITY no matter what the liberals say and some populations will have a high degree of resistance to adverse effects (I will throw in the Japanese and Chinese too as some will ready to call me a Nazi) whereas some other will buckle under overpopulation into an orgy of infighting and genocide (Rwanda is a poster child).

Occam's razor dictates there is no "conspiracy" of any kind... things just happen spontaneously.

I expect a simply more segregated world where "bad parts" (like the bad parts of town i.e ghettos) are to be avoided and their inhabitants will long be banned from coming into the good parts since the "good parts" will be barely able to feed themselves.

A few nukes will also solve some issues in some cases. Not all atomic weapons are bad :twisted:


It's specious reasoning such as this that has arrested the evolution of the human.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby seahorse » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 08:28:32

This is a bit simplistic... White European educated populations of the US do not have the behavior of neglected black teenagers with AK47s in Sierra Leone or other hellish place.


Can't happen here? Not even with a dollar collapse?

Well, I think the anarchy is happening here to an extent, certainly the roots are set. Look at the murder rate in places like Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta.

Chicago, whose population is dwarfed by those cities, posted 426 killings through Tuesday, compared with 417 in New York and 302 in L.A.

At the end of 1998, Chicago made international headlines as the U.S. "murder capital" after surpassing New York's homicide totals for the first time ever. Chicago shed that dubious distinction when murders plummeted over the last decade.

In 1998, there were about 700 murders here. Chicago is on pace to exceed 500 murders by the end of 2008.


huffington post

Check out this article, which shows the murder rate in Washington DC is higher than the places in Africa cited.

June 21, 2004: The anti-government violence in Iraq is causing a annualized death rate of 15 per 100,000 population for terrorist activities alone. That compares to a murder rate in the United States of 5.6 per 100,000. European nations have an average rate of about four per 100,000, while Russia is 20 per 100,000. Some nations are particularly violent. South Africa has a murder rate of 59, and neighboring Namibia is 45. Colombia, in South America, was over 50 a few years ago, but is now down to the 30s because a crackdown on armed militias. The Middle East tends of have low murder rates, with Turkey having a rate of 2.3. Israel also had a rate of 2.3, until the Palestinians began their terrorism campaign in late 2000. The deaths from suicide bombings and other attacks doubled Israel's murder rate to about 4 per 100,000, although that has been coming down in the past year.

But Iraq has become accustomed to a high murder rate. Saddam's police forces were the cause of many murders, and as far back as the 1970s, the official murder rate was 12 per 100,000. The coalition forces and Iraqi security forces have gotten the non-terrorist murder rate down to about five per 100,000. This, combined with the deaths caused by terrorists, produces a rate of about 20 per year. The murder rate in Washington, DC, is over 60 per 100,000.


blog

Now, I'm not trying to write a research paper on murder rates. But many US cities have high murder rates, we have the highest number of prisoners in the world, and probably as many guns as any place in the world. So, when the military think tank says what is happening in Zimbabwe could happen here, for a myriad of reasons, don't be so dismissive. It would behoove people to pay attention.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 08:40:04

seahorse wrote:
This is a bit simplistic... White European educated populations of the US do not have the behavior of neglected black teenagers with AK47s in Sierra Leone or other hellish place.

Can't happen here? Not even with a dollar collapse?
Well, I think the anarchy is happening here to an extent, certainly the roots are set. Look at the murder rate in places like Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta.
--snip--
Now, I'm not trying to write a research paper on murder rates. But many US cities have high murder rates, we have the highest number of prisoners in the world, and probably as many guns as any place in the world. So, when the military think tank says what is happening in Zimbabwe could happen here, for a myriad of reasons, don't be so dismissive. It would behoove people to pay attention.

Seahorse; When you write that paper on murder rates be sure to examine the use and supply of cocaine, meth. etc. as that may be the major factor in the murder rate.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby Ayoob » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 09:24:46

If you study the murder rates and the offenders in those places, you are going to come to an inescapable conclusion. Why not take a look at the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US, and then contrast them with the top 10 safest cities in the US?
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 09:32:30

Ayoob wrote:If you study the murder rates and the offenders in those places, you are going to come to an inescapable conclusion. Why not take a look at the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US, and then contrast them with the top 10 safest cities in the US?


The inescapable conclusion I come up with is that systemic poverty leads to high murder rates and a generally dangerous environment.

What is the inescapable conclusion you get out of this?

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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby Ayoob » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 09:50:42

ReverseEngineer wrote:
Ayoob wrote:If you study the murder rates and the offenders in those places, you are going to come to an inescapable conclusion. Why not take a look at the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US, and then contrast them with the top 10 safest cities in the US?
The inescapable conclusion I come up with is that systemic poverty leads to high murder rates and a generally dangerous environment. What is the inescapable conclusion you get out of this?

Gee, I dunno.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 10:09:57

The general counsel to Long Term Capital Management was a "pessimist by nature"? Image

NationMaster - Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country. Hmm, those affable pot smoking bobsledding Jamaicans are #3 - and Mexico, land of decapitated bullet ridden kidnapped corpses, is #6? US at #24 - behind such hellholes as the Seychelles and Belarus.

There's an interesting theory that drug use becomes more prevalent as the climate becomes warmer, don't know if it was studied with much rigor though. If you want to equate drugs with violence and are looking for evidence.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby seahorse » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 10:16:40

My inescapable conclusion is that Kaplan's premise in "The Coming Anarchy" was spot on, that overpopulation, scarcity of resources lead to all kinds of things like a growing disparity between the wealthies and poorest, destruction of the middle class, destruction of "law and order", over burdened gov'ts, sound familiar? It should, because anyone who doesn't see those same issues facing the US right now has their head in the sand. The two biggest issues being discussed right now are the fact we have to import most our oil (energy scarcity) and our banks are failing (overburdened gov't) and, back in Sept, the President warned of an world-wide financial collapse, which still has not been avoided.

The world does not end, civilization does not end, but gov'ts change, and what happened in Zimbabwe and any number of other countries throughout history can happen here. To think otherwise only allows the unthinkable to happen. When one turns a blind eye to a problem, it allows it to mestastisize (if I spelled that right, but you know what I mean).
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 10:18:26

TheDude wrote:The general counsel to Long Term Capital Management was a "pessimist by nature"? Image
NationMaster - Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country. Hmm, those affable pot smoking bobsledding Jamaicans are #3 - and Mexico, land of decapitated bullet ridden kidnapped corpses, is #6? US at #24 - behind such hellholes as the Seychelles and Belarus.
There's an interesting theory that drug use becomes more prevalent as the climate becomes warmer, don't know if it was studied with much rigor though. If you want to equate drugs with violence and are looking for evidence.

If you include alcohol in your definition of drugs and vodka consumption across Siberia I think the warm climate to drug use theory goes down the tube.
Take the gangbanger and bad drug deal murders out of DCs stats. and there isn,t much left. Poor countrys like Somalia still have drug problems so there is little hope that the GDII will improve things ,drug use wise , in the citys.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby JohnDenver » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 10:37:02

seahorse wrote:So, when the military think tank says what is happening in Zimbabwe could happen here, for a myriad of reasons, don't be so dismissive. It would behoove people to pay attention.

Why? If the US is going to turn into Zimbabwe, then it's a done deal, and you might as well forget about it. At that point, who cares? It's game over and there's no reason to care about anything anymore, at least if you're in America. Unless of course you're proposing some kind of solution. But you're not. You never talk about solutions. All you talk about is problems and defeat and despair, the more lurid the better. It's almost like you're trying to one-up yourself, or craving attention. You're getting to the point now where it's like nuclear war level doom. You've already hit "10" on the worst case scenario scale. Personally I don't give a shit about contingencies that bad. If the nuke is gonna drop, I might as well put on my sunglasses and sit outside in a lawnchair.

I'm also detecting a really strong racial undercurrent in your concerns. You're using all the appropriate code words, but it still comes through real strong.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby HeckuvaJob » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 11:34:35

I think some form of showdown with China, economic (already in progress?), political, military is inevitable and I think Africa will be the venue. But I don't know what this will do to our murder rates or if it will turn Pittsburgh into 1999 Freetown.

The Great Chinese Take-Out
While America is preoccupied with the war in Iraq (cost: half a trillion dollars and counting), and while think-tank economists continue to spit out papers debating whether vital resources are running out at all, China's leadership isn't taking any chances. In just a few years, the People's Republic of China (PRC) has become the most aggressive investor-nation in Africa. This commercial invasion is without question the most important development in the sub-Sahara since the end of the Cold War -- an epic, almost primal propulsion that is redrawing the global economic map. One former U.S. assistant secretary of state has called it a "tsunami." Some are even calling the region "ChinAfrica."

There are already more Chinese living in Nigeria than there were Britons during the height of the empire. From state-owned and state-linked corporations to small entrepreneurs, the Chinese are cutting a swath across the continent. As many as 1 million Chinese citizens are circulating here. Each megaproject announced by China's government creates collateral economies and population monuments, like the ripples of a stone skimmed across a lake.

Beijing declared 2006 the "Year of Africa," and China's leaders have made one Bono-like tour after another. No other major power has shown the same interest or muscle, or the sheer ability to cozy up to African leaders. And unlike America's faltering effort in Iraq, the Chinese ain't spreading democracy, folks. They're there to get what they need to feed the machine. The phenomenon even has a name on the ground in the sub-Sahara: the Great Chinese Takeout.

But America loves its Lo mein too. AFRICOM: US Military Control of Africa’s Resources
In February 2007 the White House announced the formation of the US African Command (AFRICOM), a new unified Pentagon command center in Africa, to be established by September 2008. This military penetration of Africa is being presented as a humanitarian guard in the Global War on Terror. The real objective is, however, the procurement and control of Africa’s oil and its global delivery systems.
The most significant and growing challenge to US dominance in Africa is China. An increase in Chinese trade and investment in Africa threatens to substantially reduce US political and economic leverage in that resource-rich continent. The political implication of an economically emerging Africa in close alliance with China is resulting in a new cold war in which AFRICOM will be tasked with achieving full-spectrum military dominance over Africa.
AFRICOM will replace US military command posts in Africa, which were formerly under control of US European Command (EUCOM) and US Central Command (CENTCOM), with a more centralized and intensified US military presence.
A context for the pending strategic role of AFRICOM can be gained from observing CENTCOM in the Middle East. CENTCOM grew out of the Carter Doctrine of 1980 which described the oil flow from the Persian Gulf as a “vital interest” of the US, and affirmed that the US would employ “any means necessary, including military force” to overcome an attempt by hostile interests to block that flow.
It is in Western and Sub-Saharan Africa that the US military force is most rapidly increasing, as this area is projected to become as important a source of energy as the Middle East within the next decade. In this region, challenge to US domination and exploitation is coming from the people of Africa—most specifically in Nigeria, where seventy percent of Africa’s oil is contained.

Thanks for the post, seahorse.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 13:10:25

This seemed the most striking statement in that first article:
Those peoples whose cultures can harbor extensive slum life without decomposing will be, relatively speaking, the future's winners. Those whose cultures cannot will be the future's victims.
The coming anarchy

Keeping your culture and morality in the face of widespread poverty ... what societies will succeed? Will America as a whole continue?

This is why I think we're going to balkanize as a nation. We just don't have a cohesive enough culture without overconsumption and cheap oil. :(
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby jato » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 13:16:44

You never talk about solutions.

What if there are no (politically acceptable) solutions?
If the nuke is gonna drop, I might as well put on my sunglasses and sit outside in a lawnchair.

Not everyone shares your defeatist attitude.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 13:48:26

RedStateGreen wrote:This is why I think we're going to balkanize as a nation.

When do you see this occurring (time frame)?
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 13:49:13

Keeping your culture and morality in the face of widespread poverty ... what societies will succeed? Will America as a whole continue?

Society will survive more poverty than you might think. Eg, Brazil.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 13:54:23

Ludi wrote:
RedStateGreen wrote:This is why I think we're going to balkanize as a nation.
When do you see this occurring (time frame)?

I'm not sure; perhaps in the next ten years or so. But I've been wrong before -- I hope I'm as wrong this time as I was about oil prices this year.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 14:01:02

Thanks!

I guess I live in a pretty thorough "melting pot" (Central Texas) it's difficult for me to see this becoming an area of ethnic cleansing.
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Re: From America to Zimbabwe, the Coming Anarchy

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Thu 18 Dec 2008, 14:10:46

Ludi wrote:Thanks!I guess I live in a pretty thorough "melting pot" (Central Texas) it's difficult for me to see this becoming an area of ethnic cleansing.

From the Free Dictionary:
Verb 1. Balkanize - divide a territory into small, hostile states


I don't see anything there about ethnic cleansing, although that might happen too. But I doubt it.
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