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This Machine Might* Save the World

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 11:24:09

This Machine Might* Save the World

Laberge believes he has a better shot than the competition at creating viable fusion power because his approach is smaller, cheaper and uses so much less electricity. And once his reactor is operating at net gain, it will power itself. Fuel for fusion -- deuterium and tritium -- is plentiful and cheap. Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen found in seawater; in theory, one gallon of seawater has the potential energy of 30 gallons of gasoline. Tritium is mildly radioactive and has a 12-year half-life, so it's a little harder to find, but it can be derived from lithium. Conveniently for General Fusion, Canada has the world's largest stockpile of tritium.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 11:26:12

Hrm, I'm not going to hold my breath for this one either.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby efarmer » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:30:13

I have a healthy skepticism about things as well, but
it is tempered with the realization that the big
breakthroughs often come from a small team or
an individual. Imagine the learned minds of Europe
and North America in 1903 who were told they were
stumped and trumped by a pair of bicycle mechanics
from Ohio and sneered and jeered until they watched
the damn thing fly around over their heads.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:32:23

TheAntiDoomer wrote:This Machine Might* Save the World

Laberge believes he has a better shot than the competition at creating viable fusion power because his approach is smaller, cheaper and uses so much less electricity. And once his reactor is operating at net gain, it will power itself. Fuel for fusion -- deuterium and tritium -- is plentiful and cheap. Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen found in seawater; in theory, one gallon of seawater has the potential energy of 30 gallons of gasoline. Tritium is mildly radioactive and has a 12-year half-life, so it's a little harder to find, but it can be derived from lithium. Conveniently for General Fusion, Canada has the world's largest stockpile of tritium.


Return to unlimited growth?
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:59:04

vision-master wrote:Return to unlimited growth?

Sadly no. Even if this worked and we had an unlimited supply of electricity it would not put back the fish in the oceans or create anymore arable land or fertilizer to push yields.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby TheDude » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 13:04:19

Don't have time to read all of the article, does this process differ much from Bussard's Polywell reactor? We had a thread dedicated to it.
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby dorlomin » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 13:11:09

efarmer wrote:I have a healthy skepticism about things as well, but
it is tempered with the realization that the big
breakthroughs often come from a small team or
an individual. Imagine the learned minds of Europe
and North America in 1903 who were told they were
stumped and trumped by a pair of bicycle mechanics
from Ohio and sneered and jeered until they watched
the damn thing fly around over their heads.
The Wright brothers were only one of a number of teams that were all relativly close to the goal of sustained powered flight. Whats more it took them a while to gain recognition.

A better example would have been Einstien who at the same time published his famous "4 papers".
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 14:05:01

TheDude wrote:Don't have time to read all of the article, does this process differ much from Bussard's Polywell reactor? We had a thread dedicated to it.


From what I understand it differs greatly dude.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 14:24:18

vision-master wrote:Return to unlimited growth?


Hey, that'll work great!
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Hermes » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 15:06:47

It would not save the world. It would save this civilization.

And this civilization is NOT the world; It is a passing phase that the world has so far endured and will hopefully not destroy the world itself.
Space Ghost: Oh boy, the Shatner's really hit the fan now. I'm up Dawson's Creek without a paddle.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 15:25:15

Not much faith in this slumdogs... Maybe we can catch a break, but i'm still pumped about Thorium...
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby nicknick » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 15:41:02

Waiting for Mr. Fusion. I think Doc invented in in 2020.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby InToWishin » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 16:43:01

They aren't the only ones chasing Magnetized Target Fusion

http://wsx.lanl.gov/mtf.html
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Heineken » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 17:54:43

It's too late for miracle power systems, even if they were possible.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Narz » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 20:31:09

vision-master wrote:Return to unlimited growth?

Strawman.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby cephalotus » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 09:06:52

vtsnowedin wrote:Even if this worked and we had an unlimited supply of electricity it would not put back the fish in the oceans or create anymore arable land or fertilizer to push yields.


"Unlimited energy" would of course be able to produce fertilzer (at least NH4+ and NO3-) and would give as much more arable land (you could make water from the sea and start farming in the desert)
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 11:11:05

cephalotus wrote:"Unlimited energy" would of course be able to produce fertilzer (at least NH4+ and NO3-) and would give as much more arable land (you could make water from the sea and start farming in the desert)


Deep understanding of soil science there!

:roll:
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby nobodypanic » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 11:44:37

vtsnowedin wrote:
vision-master wrote:


Return to unlimited growth?


Sadly no. Even if this worked and we had an unlimited supply of electricity it would not put back the fish in the oceans or create anymore arable land or fertilizer to push yields.[/quote]
if you had unlimited energy, i'll bet you could get around all of that.
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby cube » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 14:35:34

Heineken wrote:It's too late for miracle power systems, even if they were possible.
You need to watch more Star Trek episodes, especially the last 10 minutes. 8)
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Re: This Machine Might* Save the World

Unread postby cube » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 15:10:59

efarmer wrote:I have a healthy skepticism about things as well, but
it is tempered with the realization that the big
breakthroughs often come from a small team or
an individual. Imagine the learned minds of Europe
and North America in 1903 who were told they were
stumped and trumped by a pair of bicycle mechanics
from Ohio and sneered and jeered until they watched
the damn thing fly around over their heads.
2 words: Diminishing returns

example 1)
It took only 1 person Thomas Newcomen to invent the first "modern" steam engine.
It can take over 10,000 engineers to develop a modern engine today.
example 2)
Louis Pasteur discovered germ theory and that saved the lives of millions of people.
Today it takes 10,000 doctors to research a single drug with a limited capability like maybe reducing back pain or whatever.

You see a pattern here?
All the "easy" discoveries have already been invented....the low hanging fruit. That's why it took only 1 or 2 people to invent something really cool back in the days.
In today's world the technology is so super duper complex there can only be a major breakthrough if maybe 100,000 engineers ALL smash their heads against the wall for the next 10 years and *maybe* they will invent something.

It took 2 people to invent the airplane. How many people do you think it took to invent this thing? :wink:
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