[MiamiRob]

I am posting in hopes of getting suggestions\advice on my purchase of a plug-in hybrid.

I am about to buy a 2009 Prius and have the dealership install a battery module that gives the car plug-in capability. The battery module is manufactured by a company called Hymotion. The Prius costs about $32,000 and the battery module costs about $11,000. In total, I will be spending about $43,000.

I live in Miami Beach and work in downtown Miami. Because my daily round-trip commute is less than ten miles, in terms of savings on gasoline costs, the $11,000 cost of the plug-in module will take years and years to recoup. The only reason that I am buying the Prius with the Hymotion module is so that in the event of gasoline shortages, I will not have to worry about refueling. With the Hymotion module installed, the Prius can travel over twenty miles at speeds of up to 35 mph in close to EV-only mode. Therefore, I will be able to go weeks and weeks without putting gas in the car. In that I have access to a building-wide generator, I will be able to re-charge the Hymotion battery pack during power outages.

I live in a condominium and have parking space limitations so having both the Prius and my current car is not possible. It is either one car or the other. After last year's gas shortages from the hurricanes in the Gulf, I am concerned that if I don't buy the Prius that I will regret it. My family and friends say that I am paranoid and that paying $43,000 for a Prius is ridiculous. In that the Prius has arrived at the dealership, I have to make a decision this weekend as to whether or not to proceed with the purchase. I don't really want to drive a Prius because I will miss things like power seats, a powerful engine and the feel of driving a heavier car. However, I am very concerned about gasoline availability.

Does it make sense to buy the Prius or am I being overly paranoid about the gasoline supply? I had to order the Hymotion module over a year in advance so if I decide not to buy the Prius now, I will potentially have to at least a year for another chance at getting the Hymotion module installed.

Thank you.
Rob
Miami

[mgibbons19]

Buy an old corolla and a bike, and save 30k. On days there's no gas, take the bike.

[MiamiRob]

I should have added that I am also concerned about being able to travel to visit my elderly parents in central Florida. With the Hymotion module installed, the Prius can make the trip on about two gallons of gas. My current car uses almost ten gallons for that drive. My concern is that gas might not be available. What do you think is the possibility of major gas shortages over the next year or so?

If I never had to drive more than the five miles to work, I would completely agree with you that a bike would be the best backup plan. Actually, I have a bike and I ride it often. However, I don't ride the bike to work because there is no place where I can take a shower when I get to the office and I have to wear a suit.

Rob

[Hermes]

Hi Rob:

My opinion is... within the next few years there will be little gasoline for you to gas up your car with. You will probably be laid off, and will neither be able to make payments on the car nor will you need the car to get to your work anymore.

Electricity will become spotty shortly with brownouts turning to rolling blackouts turning to rolling on periods which become shorter and shorter (e.g. power is on from 10:15pm to 3:30am each day).

I VERY MUCH support mgibbons' response to you - get a cheap used car and a bicycle. If you're seriously concerned about gas shortages then I think you should ALSO be concerned about electricity shortages too, and that's going to make your Prius a $43,000 lawn ornament.

Far better to take that money and buy cheap transportation and take the surplus and turn it into Food/Water/Shelter infrastructure ASAP.

A Hybrid car is based on a vision of the future which doesn't exist.

[AQIUS]

I have an old Corolla (1995) as a backup. Runs great, easy to maintain for for the DIY type. Can't go wrong. Only downside for me is my HOA squawks about the total number of cars but it's not that bad.

Having spent a lot of years growing up in FL I will confirm that riding a bike is not possible due to many factors:
Extreme humidity has you drenched in 5 minutes.
Heavy downpours every afternoon.
Impatient crabby blind elderly drivers who will run you over.

There's more but you get the idea.

As far as a plug-in Prius, why not just wait another year or two for the real Toyota version? I'd be nervous about warranty coverage with an outside vendor . . . like in finger-pointing over coverage.

[mos6507]

I was making $300/month payments on my Mazda-3. Not having a car payment (assuming I don't run into a lot of major mechanical problems) means I'm "saving" $300 a month vs. buying a new vehicle like a theoretical $30K Chevy Volt. $300 a month would buy a lot of gasoline miles even with $4-5 gallon gas which is probably at least a year or two off at the minimum. I don't like burning gasoline for the environmental aspects but there is a mighty big financial leap to get off of it entirely. I'm already doing my part by telecommuting, and if I commute again, I can take public transit (light rail, or worst case, the diesel-electric commuter rail).

If you find yourself having to make regular long trips, you have to reevaluate your LIFE for post-peak. Obviously not everyone can move close to work or live in an area well served by public transit. Just look out for yourself first.

Families are going to have to live closer or just deal with fewer get together. I moved back to MA to anticipate this problem but my parents will soon be retired and living fulltime in FL. So that's trouble brewing.

[Ludi]

Buy a small used car. Don't blow $43,000 on a Prius.

A GeoMetro is a good choice.

Of new cars, the Aveo, the Fit, and the Yaris are inexpensive.

[blukatzen]

Hi, I am wondering where you are in relationship to a hurricane damaging your Prius, are you near the ocean, or inland? I know you will have insurance, and it may cover it with a rider? I don't want you to lose your investment, because hurricanes are a very real phenomenon down there. You may find that you had suffered through a hurricane, there is very little gas to be had, plus damaged gas stations, PLUS the power could be off for weeks. (do you have a generator, in that case?)

Have you thought this out, and what is the plan if that were to happen, and THEN, is it cost effective? If I were in your shoes, that would be *the* determining factor, the normal cascade of failure of being able to depend on things during a hurricane.

Then the bike becomes the method of transport, albeit with a good pannier system for a suit, etc. They *do* have them you know, people up here in Chicago use them a lot, we have a good transit system here that lets you take a bike along, and a big park with a whole downtown bike station where you can keep your bike and shower, if needs be. chicagobikestation.com .

I know Miami is a whole other story with humidity in the summer and that melting feeling, I lived in Miami in the late 80's doing some postgrad work there.
(I lived in Phoenix, and I've lived in Miami, and I'll take Miami anytime, I love "tropical" vs. "desert".)

If you have the income to justify this, then I may do this, in light of the future and with a strong justification of having to check on elderly parents. If it is in their partial benefit, are they able to chip in on the purchase to accomodate your expense of this? (say even 20 percent, which I think would be fair?) That is, if they have the means, some elderly parents DO! (my parents would have fit in that category when they were alive, and would have chipped in!)

Some things to think about!

Blu

[cephalotus]

Driving a plug in hybrid is making a statement or for those interested in being at the first line on a frontier of a new technologie.

If you are most afraid of gas shortages why not store some gas, that will last for maybe 1-2 months?

For energy saving reasons driving a bike from time to time could be a possibility, mybe an electric bike could be the first step to try out electric mobility.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/

[Zero-point]

It's not worth it unless you got money to burn.

[Mesuge]

I don't really want to drive a Prius because I will miss things like power seats, a powerful engine and the feel of driving a heavier car. However, I am very concerned about gasoline availability.

Hi Rob, if I am not mistaken Prius without that additional plugin kit weights roughly 1300kg, missing the feel of driving even heavier car, are you crazy? I'd never by a passanger car over 1 ton ..

There are more options on the market than just Hymotion,
so to have Prius (new or used) ready might work for some people for certain time and at some places..

If money is the problem, search for slightly used one in good mechanical condition with just some nasty scratches on the body(female driver, vandalism etc.), esthetics is not the order of the day..

[coyote]

MiamiRob, I am a Prius owner. But I do a lot of driving, and besides I'm a geek who loves that car. It sounds like you're wanting the car and add-on for savings only - but at higher MPG, added savings are dubious and probably not worth the extra money. Before you kick down that much money for a Prius, and especially for the added gizmo, you should browse this thread:

MPG illusion

Miles Per Gallon is misleading. Calculate the miles you'll drive and then switch it around Gallons Per Mile to find out how much you'll actually save by getting the Prius, and compare with and without the plugin. Chances are the savings won't be as much as you're thinking. The higher the mileage, the harder it is to get much added benefit from going higher still. Diminishing returns.

[ReverseEngineer]

If you don't want to work up a sweat, what about the option of an Electric Scooter?



These scooters generally have a range of about 30 miles on a charge, and will do around 25-30mph with a 150lb rider aboard. Price range is anywhere from $500 to $5000 for mopeds, scooters right up to motorcycles with longer ranges that will do near highway speeds.

Recumbent bikes offer better aerodynamics, and its also possible to nearly enclose them for protection from rain



There are also numerous commuter cars being built now, you can find out more about them at Electric Bikes
Your main problems with these in the US right now would be getting them registered and insured.

While rain is certainly a problem in FL, you can pick up a good Gore-Tex Jumpsuit for around $300 to wear over your suit & tie. A better plan would probably be to keep the suit in a pannier bag and change in the office bathroom though.

If you are a Do-it-yourselfer, you can buy plans for building some of these things yourself, and with parts from old bicycles and car batteries, probably put together a decent one for a few hundred dollars.

Certainly there are still many reasons why long term this probably doesn't work out all that well, since the power grids in many areas will become intermittent. However, once that happens, commuting to work will be the least of your worries

If you live out on a Doomstead and have your own PV and Windmill power generation capability, you could keep many of these vehicles operating for quite some time using automobile batteries available all over the place in cars that won't be running. Of course the range and acceleration won't be as good as with a lithium polymer battery, but you could invest in a few extra battery packs at around $300 each to last you a few years.

After that, if you don't like pushing the pedals yourself, probably your best investment would be a Horse, as long as you can feed both the horse and yourself anyhow. By the time we get to the horses though, Florida won't be heavily populated anymore, so no worries there either

Anyhow, a cheap used car, an electric scooter and a bicycle should keep you covered transportation wise for at least the next year or two. After that, all bets are off.

Reverse Engineer

[mattduke]

You aren't paranoid enough.

[ReverseEngineer]

You aren't paranoid enough.

I'm working on plans for a Recumbent Bike with a Ball Turret Gunner seat to put one of my smaller students in to mow down the Zombies. You can find the Plans at REMobileZombieDefense.com.

Reverse Engineer

[MiamiRob]

PStarr, I own land in central New Hampshire. I also have twenty acres in North Carolina on which I have built a house that has a roof covered in solar panels, grey water storage and a deep well. However, I like the city and it is my intent to live in Miami for as long as possible. I actually feel that I am safer in my Miami condo building, which is situated on an island north of downtown and is patrolled by arm guards, than I am at my house in North Carolina.

I feel that having a plug-in hybrid would be very useful if there are gas shortages. I have lived in Miami for many years and I have seen panicked people fighting as they wait in the gas lines that occur as hurricanes approach. I don't want to be a part of that. In that I have a generator in my condo building that can run for almost a month without needed to be refueled, I could charge the Prius in my condo parking garage if there are power outages.

I really do not want a Prius. I want another Mercedes. However, I am afraid that there will be gas shortages and I will regret not having a plug-in hybrid. If there will be wide spread gas shortages within the next year, I need to get the Prius. If gas shortages are still a few years away. I will wait on the hybrid purchase.

Rob

[ReverseEngineer]

PStarr, I own land in central New Hampshire. I also have twenty acres in North Carolina on which I have built a house that has a roof covered in solar panels, grey water storage and a deep well. However, I like the city and it is my intent to live in Miami for as long as possible. I actually feel that I am safer in my Miami condo building, which is situated on an island north of downtown and is patrolled by arm guards, than I am at my house in North Carolina.

You clearly have more money than you know what to do with. Buy a Prius, and extra battery packs. Keep plenty of food around to hand out to the Armed Guards securing your Miami Condo.

Reverse Engineer

[MiamiRob]

Reverse Engineer,

Buying the land in North Carolina and building the house there was an expensive mistake. I started that project about five years ago and if i had it to do all over again, I would never have built it. After the house was finished, I realized living there would make me a sitting duck. A friend of mine is interested in buying it and I hope he follows through with it. I am going to build a new house in a better location in another state.

I am sincerely sorry if I am coming off as some rich guy who has money to throw around because that is not the case. While I do have some resources, when preparing for peak oil, money goes very quickly. Just the purchase of long-term storage food costs thousands and thousands. Like everyone else, I am trying to do the best I can with what I have. And that is why I posted about the Prius with a supplemental battery pack. On one hand, I think having a Prius that gets well over 100mpg is very important. On the other hand, I think that maybe I am jumping the gun and there is no reason to pay $43,000 for what is really a pretty basic economy car.

Rob

[ReverseEngineer]

Reverse Engineer,

I am sincerely sorry if I am coming off as some rich guy who has money to throw around because that is not the case.

You might be sincere in your belief here, just you have the small problem the facts you relate clearly identify you as "some rich guy who has money to throw around". Good grief, you identify a house on 20 acres in North Carolina as "an expensive mistake". Even among the pretty well to do on this board, plenty of them would LOVE to have an expensive mistake on 20 acres. Besides that mistake, you ALSO have land up in New Hampshire! Nice Hedging on the bets here, make a mistake in one locale, try another one! LOL.

You are worried about whether to buy a Prius instead of a Mercedes? Hello, I personally drive a 20 year old Mazda at the moment. I also have a nice Bicycle, and I live a big mile and a half from where I work. I'm sorry, I can't work up a whole lot of sympathy for your dilemma. You wanna spend your money on a Prius, you feel your 20 acres in North Carolina is a big mistake, you want to live in your Miami Condo patrolled by Armed Guards, feel FREE, be my Guest! Yeesh. Best of luck out there when TSHTF. You are living in a dream world.

See You on the Other Side.

Reverse Engineer