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The Downside Slope

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

The Downside Slope

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 05:49:09

As if we were not already painfully aware of the fact, last year's food panic was a reminder of the uncomfortable position of nations who import important commodities.

Because the oil shocks of the past or relatively short-lived we have never really tested the idea of who would be the first to go without or how that pain might be distributed among world's net importers (I assume net exporters should be able to trade oil for refined product even if they do not have much refining capacity themselves). To that end I am trying to accumulate some statistics and would love to hear your input.

Recognizing that it is imperfect, I am including the current account balance as a measure of ability to pay for the imports that are available. Suggestions and arguments for a better measure are greatly appreciated.



Code: Select all
               
              Oil Consumption   Net Imports   Imports as % of total used   Current Account Balance*    
USA                  20.69             12.22                 59.06%                 -731   
Japan                 5.2               5.1                  98.08%                  210   
China                 7.2               3.44                 47.78%                  371   
Germany               2.7               2.48                 91.85%                  254   
South Korea           2.2               2.15                 97.73%                    3.7   
France                2                 1.89                 94.50%                  -35   
India                 2.6               1.69                 65.00%                  -18   
Italy                 1.7               1.56                 91.76%                  -57   
Spain                 1.6               1.55                 96.88%                 -126   
Taiwan                0.95              0.94                 99.16%                   23.8   
Netherlands           0.98              0.94                 95.92%                   59   
Singapore             0.83              0.79                 95.18%                   41   
Thailand              0.93              0.61                 65.59%                    8.6   
Turkey                0.68              0.58                 85.29%                  -36   
Belgium               0.63              0.55                 87.30%                   11
*current account balance in billions of dollars   
Last edited by wisconsin_cur on Mon 12 Jan 2009, 06:37:53, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 06:32:43

Please help me understand your chart. are you saying that the US only import 22% of is total gas? What does it mean "% imports of total use"?

and waht is teh date of your data? prudent bear had the US current account at -195 as of oct 04.

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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 06:36:25

uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:Please help me understand your chart. are you saying that the US only import 22% of is total gas? What does it mean "% imports of total use"?

and waht is teh date of your data? prudent bear had the US current account at -195 as of oct 04.

thanks


we use 20 million barrels per day

we import 12

we import 59% of what we use (the remainder is domestically produced).

Current Account Balance as of 2007

I will attempt to clarify the op.
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 06:40:43

Sorry, I am sure this is a stupid question but I thought the US was a net importer? wouldn't that mean you would have reached the point where you were importing more than you produced (aka over 50%)?

edited to add: you mean the current accoutn deficit has jumped over 536B since oct 04? Holy crap, no wonder they are saying you are in big crap!
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 06:52:01

uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:Sorry, I am sure this is a stupid question but I thought the US was a net importer? wouldn't that mean you would have reached the point where you were importing more than you produced (aka over 50%)?

edited to add: you mean the current accoutn deficit has jumped over 536B since oct 04? Holy crap, no wonder they are saying you are in big crap!


You are a net importer if you import more than you export or in other words if you use more than you produce. All of the nations listed above are net importers. An example of a net exporter would be the Saudi's, Canada or Russia. If you use 100 barrels a day and only produce 99 you are a net importer of 1 barrel per day.

The USA is the largest net importer by volume but since we still produce a bit we are not the largest importer as a percentage of our consumption. There are nations which import > 90% of what they consume because they have little domestic production.

So in the downslope the USA is in a potentially bad position as we import a lot and already have a large negative current account balance. an argument could be made that Japan is in a better or worse position. Better because of their trade situation worse because they import more as a percentage of consumption or better because they import less than half the volume that we do.
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby simplelife » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 20:15:20

wisconsin_cur wrote:
uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:Sorry, I am sure this is a stupid question but I thought the US was a net importer? wouldn't that mean you would have reached the point where you were importing more than you produced (aka over 50%)?

edited to add: you mean the current accoutn deficit has jumped over 536B since oct 04? Holy crap, no wonder they are saying you are in big crap!


You are a net importer if you import more than you export or in other words if you use more than you produce. All of the nations listed above are net importers. An example of a net exporter would be the Saudi's, Canada or Russia. If you use 100 barrels a day and only produce 99 you are a net importer of 1 barrel per day.

The USA is the largest net importer by volume but since we still produce a bit we are not the largest importer as a percentage of our consumption. There are nations which import > 90% of what they consume because they have little domestic production.

So in the downslope the USA is in a potentially bad position as we import a lot and already have a large negative current account balance. an argument could be made that Japan is in a better or worse position. Better because of their trade situation worse because they import more as a percentage of consumption or better because they import less than half the volume that we do.


Japan probably has little room to trim fat, but US is very wasteful and could easily cut way back without big changes. That gives us play room. Any cut backs they make will hurt more, just doubt there is much waste on that tiny island.
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 20:45:50

simplelife wrote: US is very wasteful and could easily cut way back without big changes.


I'm not entirely sure of that, because a lot of our economy is based on "waste" and if you cut out a lot of the "waste" you cut out jobs.

What waste do you see cutting out that won't cut jobs?
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby Revi » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 21:06:18

We may cut some jobs while creating others as we trim the waste. There are a lot of jobs in insulating and tuning up cars for more efficiency, for example.

Those jobs we lose are dumb anyway.

All those monster truck repairmen and snowmobile racers can get into building solar electric cars.
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 21:08:15

Revi wrote:Those jobs we lose are dumb anyway.


But I like my job, and I'm good at it! :P
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Re: The Downside Slope

Unread postby JustaGirl » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 21:42:21

Italy is in a very precarious position. They rely almost 100% on imports for both oil and natural gas. I guess I should be glad my grandfather immigrated from there :cry:
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