[phaster]

The coldest moments happen just before the dawn, when the moon has set and the sun has not yet breached the dark void of the eastern horizon.

After watching the inauguration I for one wish President Obama the best of luck trying to fix the big problems of energy, the economy and restoring the vision of the USA as the shining city upon a hill that people around the world were drawn to, like moths to a flame.

What gives me hope in general is acknowledging the problems in broad paint strokes, and his references for the need to sacrifice.

[Heineken]

Yes, the poor and middle classes must prepare to sacrifice, now that the powerful and rich have fleeced them good and stolen their futures too.

Got only a quart of milk in the fridge? Get prepared to take personal responsibility and give up a pint of it to Uncle Sam.

[Narz]

Get prepared to take personal responsibility and give up a pint of it to Uncle Sam.

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country, now give 'till it hurts! "

[phaster]

Yes, the poor and middle classes must prepare to sacrifice, now that the powerful and rich have fleeced them good and stolen their futures too.

Got only a quart of milk in the fridge? Get prepared to take personal responsibility and give up a pint of it to Uncle Sam.

There are indeed many rich individuals who are morally bankrupt, and down right greedy, one need look no further than Bernie Madoff who had a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme. But I'd suggest the poor and middle classes do have some blame to share in this economic mess.

There are just as many morally bankrupt, and down right greedy individuals at all income levels, just because one is poor or middle class does automatically mean they are holier-than-thou. There is crime and exploitation in all levels of society.

IMHO personal responsibility comes in many forms including educating oneself about the math. As it stands, looking at the future budget of the USA, it is impossible to keep up all the medical and social programs, as well as the social safety net promised by policy makers.

Just like the problem of peak oil, the demand for social services will inevitably out strip supply. We are living at a time of "peak expectations" and the hard reality of the math states, its not a matter of if but when, civilizations will have to down grade its expectations (i.e. sacrifice) in order to balance out the supply and demand.

This eventual balancing of supply and demand applies to ancient forms of energy such as "oil" in the form of the light sweet stuff, or in terms of the federal budget which needs income in the form of taxes to pay for social programs.

BTW if ya missed the IOUSA program, I suggest ya watch it. It may not be pretty, but just like the issue of peak oil, it is a very real problem...

intro/summary of I.O.U.S.A. television premiere on CNN

part 1 of 2 of the IOUSA television premiere on CNN

part 2 of 2 of the IOUSA television premiere on CNN

[charliebrownout]

FWIW, I'm glad I'm not a highly visible rich person right now.

I think those folks are going to be used for target practice in the near term future.

It won't be paparazzi chasing stars anymore, it will be mobs with pitchfolks and WalMart shotguns. :/

Rich people do make obvious targets, but the society itself is morally bankrupt on a lot of levels. That's never a good thing.

The truth will out is going to become the truth will..OUCH!

[yesplease]

Yes, the poor and middle classes must prepare to sacrifice, now that the powerful and rich have fleeced them good and stolen their futures too.

Not exactly. That was more of a Bush administration deal. Obama's tax plan has 95% of the country seeing a tax break, so that's a ~100 billion in the pockets of the middle class and below. To offset this the rate on the top income tax bracket is going to be raised from 35% to something below 39%.

Here's a graph of who makes what in the U.S. Odds are, the increase in tax rates for the 1% of the population who can undeniably afford it will more than offset the decrease in tax rates for those who have trouble affording the higher taxes of the Bush administration.

Got only a quart of milk in the fridge? Get prepared to take personal responsibility and give up a pint of it to Uncle Sam.

The 1% of the population who only has 33% of the income? Get ready to take personal responsibility and give a few pints of it to Uncle Sam. Everyone else gives less milk.

[Heineken]

Yes, the poor and middle classes must prepare to sacrifice, now that the powerful and rich have fleeced them good and stolen their futures too.

Got only a quart of milk in the fridge? Get prepared to take personal responsibility and give up a pint of it to Uncle Sam.

There are indeed many rich individuals who are morally bankrupt, and down right greedy, one need look no further than Bernie Madoff who had a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme. But I'd suggest the poor and middle classes do have some blame to share in this economic mess.

There are just as many morally bankrupt, and down right greedy individuals at all income levels, just because one is poor or middle class does automatically mean they are holier-than-thou. There is crime and exploitation in all levels of society.

IMHO personal responsibility comes in many forms including educating oneself about the math. As it stands, looking at the future budget of the USA, it is impossible to keep up all the medical and social programs, as well as the social safety net promised by policy makers.

Just like the problem of peak oil, the demand for social services will inevitably out strip supply. We are living at a time of "peak expectations" and the hard reality of the math states, its not a matter of if but when, civilizations will have to down grade its expectations (i.e. sacrifice) in order to balance out the supply and demand.

This eventual balancing of supply and demand applies to ancient forms of energy such as "oil" in the form of the light sweet stuff, or in terms of the federal budget which needs income in the form of taxes to pay for social programs.

BTW if ya missed the IOUSA program, I suggest ya watch it. It may not be pretty, but just like the issue of peak oil, it is a very real problem...

part 1 of 2 of the I.O.U.S.A. television premiere (broadcast date Jan. 10 and 11, 2009) on CNN - time 42 minutes 32 seconds

http://www.4shared.com/file/81379709/11 ... part1.html

part 2 of 2 of the I.O.U.S.A. television premiere (broadcast date Jan. 10 and 11, 2009) on CNN - time 45 minutes 01 seconds

http://www.4shared.com/file/81384940/76 ... part2.html

The poor are ignorant, always have been, and always will be. It's part of the general condition of poverty.

The real responsibility belongs to the leaders and the wealthy, not the poor.

Before they had their Golden Age, the leaders of ancient Greece recognized this and actually forced a transfer of power and wealth away from the aristocracy.

What sacrifices is Obama asking of OUR aristocracy? He's already reneged on his promise to immediately cut their tax cuts. He's establishing cozy ties with the military-industrial complex.

Obama's high-sounding message actually reflects further tightening of the noose on the poor. He's preparing them to cough up even more, including, soon, their Social Security and Medicare.

[phaster]

Wealth isn't the problem, its what ya do with it. Think of it this way, money is just another tool to achieve a means.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with being a highly visible rich person; provided of course that said person using their wealth in a constructive fashion.

If I had a few billion, I think it would be kinda fun to sponsor something like an xprize for trying to find ways to better use energy.

http://www.xprize.org/future-x-prizes/e ... nvironment

There a lots of bright individuals here in the USA, IMHO what needs to be done is channel that talent toward fields that have long term payback, in fields like energy and education.

As far as the paparazzi and celebretary chasing crowd, essentially they are going to reap what they have sown; by this I mean there is multitude of talentless individuals who worship at the alter of consumption, and in this climate of an economic downturn, their talents or rather their lack therof is going to unmask their empty lives.

I've been to some pretty economically challanged parts of this world, and it never ceased to amaze me of the warmth and generosity of peoples who had far less that many "poor" people in this country (I'm speaking of the USA). In a way perhaps this downturn in the economy is a blessing for the USA because it is an opportunity to rediscover that material goods are not the end all and be all of existance.

FWIW, I'm glad I'm not a highly visible rich person right now.

I think those folks are going to be used for target practice in the near term future.

It won't be paparazzi chasing stars anymore, it will be mobs with pitchfolks and WalMart shotguns. :/

Rich people do make obvious targets, but the society itself is morally bankrupt on a lot of levels. That's never a good thing.

The truth will out is going to become the truth will..OUCH!

[charliebrownout]

Wealth isn't the problem, its what ya do with it. Think of it this way, money is just another tool to achieve a means.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with being a highly visible rich person; provided of course that said person using their wealth in a constructive fashion.

If I had a few billion, I think it would be kinda fun to sponsor something like an xprize for trying to find ways to better use energy.

http://www.xprize.org/future-x-prizes/e ... nvironment

There a lots of bright individuals here in the USA, IMHO what needs to be done is channel that talent toward fields that have long term payback, in fields like energy and education.

As far as the paparazzi and celebretary chasing crowd, essentially they are going to reap what they have sown; by this I mean there is multitude of talentless individuals who worship at the alter of consumption, and in this climate of an economic downturn, their talents or rather their lack therof is going to unmask their empty lives.

I've been to some pretty economically challanged parts of this world, and it never ceased to amaze me of the warmth and generosity of peoples who had far less that many "poor" people in this country (I'm speaking of the USA). In a way perhaps this downturn in the economy is a blessing for the USA because it is an opportunity to rediscover that material goods are not the end all and be all of existance.

I agree 110%...I know it is going to hurt, but I hope this whole process makes people in America into a more human (in the good sense) and humane bunch.

I (heart) philanthropy. I'd just like to see the spirit of generosity on ALL levels.

Again, we have become morally bankrupt and we're going to have to atone for that. I mean morally bankrupt in the sense of love for neighbor, nature, and community--not in some bullshit neocon sense.

I wish someone would do an Xprize. If nothing else, it would be a more useful diversion than the other garbage we're spending money on.

[phaster]

I think today of all days illustrates that the poor are not ignorant and always will be.

President Obama, was not born with a silver spoon up his ass, nor did he have the benefit of a stable two parent high income house hold.

What he had was some kind of drive to better himself thru education, and extricate himself from the general condition of poverty.

As it stands, the programs of social security, medicare and medicade are unsustainable and one war or another the programs will have to modify benefits to reflect the reality that there is greater demand than supply.

Since this board is about peak oil, think of it in these terms, there is no difference between the unlimited demand for oil and social programs, and the limited supply of oil and money. We currently are in the middle of an economic crisis caused by too many people from all income levels trying to generate "paper" money.

Basically it all comes back to the general idea of demand out stripping supply.

BTW if ya actually look at the way the social security and medicare system are structured, people of all income levels are extracting much much more than they are putting in and this is because in general people are living much longer than say our grandparents generation.

The responsibility of fixing the problem should not just be that of the leaders and the wealthy, because everyone including the poor in some way had a hand in contributing to the problem.

The only condition IMHO that can't be fixed is utter stupidity, and that problem spans the economic spectrum from rich to poor!

The poor are ignorant, always have been, and always will be. It's part of the general condition of poverty.

The real responsibility belongs to the leaders and the wealthy, not the poor.

Obama's high-sounding message actually reflects further tightening of the noose on the poor. He's preparing them to cough up even more, including, soon, their Social Security and Medicare.

[Schmuto]

Obama's a fake.

I see YesPlease doing some gymnastics trying to show how Obama's going to stick it to some class above him/her by raising rates a few percentage points here and there.

Please.

Obama is about to embark on borrowing more than a trillion dollars per year for multiple years. That is going to devastate the lower and middle classes.

The fact that he throws the ignorant dog a bone as he is setting fire to the dog house should not be construed as a benefit to the dog.

[yesplease]

Obama's a fake.

I see YesPlease doing some gymnastics trying to show how Obama's going to stick it to some class above him/her by raising rates a few percentage points here and there.

Please.

Obama is about to embark on borrowing more than a trillion dollars per year for multiple years. That is going to devastate the lower and middle classes.

Bush dropped the tax rate for the wealthy by ~4% IIRC. That's about 250 billion a year the wealthiest in America were able to keep in their pocket. That's ~2 trillion bucks over eight years, kept in the pockets of those who would miss it the least.

Furthermore, Obama is supposedly going to cut the tax rate for the poor, working, and middle class, to the tune of ~150 billion. Granted, he may not be able to push the tax package through, only time will tell, but saying he's going to devastate the lower and middle class sounds like something a bitter wealthy person would say. We don't have lower classes, we have the poor, the working class, the middle class, and the rich. No one is a lower class.

[Heineken]

President Obama, was not born with a silver spoon up his ass, nor did he have the benefit of a stable two parent high income house hold.

What he had was some kind of drive to better himself thru education, and extricate himself from the general condition of poverty.

Granted. He's very bright and very ambitious and had humble beginnings. But so too did some of the Robber Barons.

There must be some reason for the maxim, "Power corrupts."

[phaster]

I beg to differ, when I was a senior in high school we use to refer to others in the "lower" class!

No one is a lower class.

[mos6507]

So typical. We need someone to blame for our collective misfortune so now that Bush is gone we're already damning Obama to hell a couple days into his presidency for a situation he's inherited. Congratulations, folks. I hope venting on a worldsend makes ya feel better cuz it ain't gonna make a difference in the real world.

[yesplease]

I beg to differ, when I was a senior in high school we use to refer to others in the "lower" class!

Well, at least in the context of income tax brackets then.