[mattduke]

How do you like your government-banker crime syndicate now?

guardian

Link courtesy of cryptogon.

[Jotapay]

There is a real interesting thread about this over on Ticker Forum. Genesis (Karl) has some smart things to say about it, I think.

The UK is screwed, no matter what. The way it's described over there, is that they have two choices, to continue to promise money that doesn't exist and get gangraped and left for dead a la Iceland, or withdraw liquidity and just get normal raped. It doesn't sound pretty and I sure as crap would not want to be in the UK right now.

http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/a ... post=79428

[Maddog78]

Gotta love that quote in there.
I wonder if any North American newspapers would even have the guts to print something like that.

[Sixstrings]

It appears the UK press is being far more blunt about things than our own press.

I wonder how similar the US situation is to the UK? From one of these UK articles, I read that the bad debts are more than the nation's entire GDP. What I'm not clear on is the situation in the US.. I believe our total GDP is 13 trillion. Anyone have an idea of the total on bad debts the government is guaranteeing (or will end up guaranteeing)?

Remember, I'm talking about getting a peg on the *bad* debts, not total debt. My hunch is that perhaps we're not in nearly as bad shape as the UK.

[Snowrunner]

It appears the UK press is being far more blunt about things than our own press.

I wonder how similar the US situation is to the UK? From one of these UK articles, I read that the bad debts are more than the nation's entire GDP. What I'm not clear on is the situation in the US.. I believe our total GDP is 13 trillion. Anyone have an idea of the total on bad debts the government is guaranteeing (or will end up guaranteeing)?

Remember, I'm talking about getting a peg on the *bad* debts, not total debt. My hunch is that perhaps we're not in nearly as bad shape as the UK.

It's harder in the US. The 11 Trillion debt that is shown around is just the Federal debt, from what I understand if you also throw in all the other Government levels you are closer to 25 Trillion.

As far as the UK vs. the US goes: I would consider the UK the canary in the coal mine. They do not have the benefits of the USD which is currently still shielding the US from the worst, but how long this is going to last is anybodies guess.

I think both countries are in an equal position, just how far down the slope they are is different.

[Sixstrings]

It's harder in the US. The 11 Trillion debt that is shown around is just the Federal debt, from what I understand if you also throw in all the other Government levels you are closer to 25 Trillion.

Well, what I'm asking about are the "toxic debts." The bad mortgages, credit card debt, personal and business commercial paper.

I'm just curious if the amount of known defaulted debt that the government is/will be guaranteeing excedes our GDP or not.

[bratticus]

re-running this due to increased relevance:

Supermarkets' emergency plans to keep shelves full

... Fears that scores of supermarket suppliers will go bust next year have led the country's major chains to draw up emergency plans to replace them, The Observer can reveal. ...

[AlexdeLarge]

The Baby Boomers have had their moment in power. The most spoilt generation in history has handled affairs with its characteristic hedonism. The results are coming in.

The blithering idiots.

[Cid_Yama]

<i>The Baby Boomers have had their moment in power. The most spoilt generation in history has handled affairs with its characteristic hedonism. The results are coming in.</i>

Idiot. It was the Reaganite Yuppies, not the baby boomers. Obviously, you are too young to know the difference.

[BlueGhostNo2]

The number I have heard is 53 trillion when you throw in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
I think we are as farked as the UK if that number is anywhere near true.

The thing to realize is the US debt is all denominated in US dollers, the US can stiff it's creditors by defaulting or slowly stiff them by inflating. The option of slowly stiffing them is bad but MUCH better than a default. (and is infact what the US has been doing for ages). The US is also very strong economically, this is balanced by a HUGE government and HUGE individual consumption.

However the combination of these two facts mean individuals can reduce consumption further without hitting real (absolute) poverty. And the final level of sustainable consumption per person is probably alot higher as there are real industries which can absorb the employees and export.

Contrast that with the UK, we've just taken on a huge load of non £ denominated liabilities in the shape of banks. So inflation will make paying those back alot harder.

Our major export was financial services (~20% gdp) we also had high tech engineering (might be useful if renewables / fusion take off) but hardly any natural basics to export, no food, no oil nada.

So, I think the UK is absolutely more buggered than the US, but there are countries out there less buggered than either.

Denmark, NZ, Aus, etc

[lawnchair]

Idiot. It was the Reaganite Yuppies, not the baby boomers. Obviously, you are too young to know the difference.

I always viewed the Reaganite yuppies, or at least those who carried his torch through the later 80s and until the very last few years, as a an influential subset of, primarily, baby boomers. Am I wrong, there?

[Sixstrings]

Fears that scores of supermarket suppliers will go bust next year have led the country's major chains to draw up emergency plans to replace them, The Observer can reveal.

(from supermarket article link posted above)

The Brit press are really on top of this. Is there no contingency planning regarding supermarkets in the US, or are we just not told about it?

[mattduke]

The thing to realize is the US debt is all denominated in US dollers, the US can stiff it's creditors by defaulting or slowly stiff them by inflating.

Good thing you and I are smart enough to understand that but the holders of trillions in bonds aren't, so they won't have any temptation to sell them until they've been thoroughly screwed!

[GeneralGreen]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.

[charliebrownout]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.

Kind of like this?

Or this?

I don't know about anyone else, but I find it kind of heartening to know that America hasn't cornered the market on losers.

[AlexdeLarge]

America puts its Chavs in high government office..................

[charliebrownout]

America puts its Chavs in high government office..................

And other countries don't? I'm sorry, I don't follow....

[JPL]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.

Ah, but the General mis-understands the terrifying (for an enemy) traditional British stratagy, which is based on a complete inability to do maths. Brits usually handle complex and overwhelming odds by simply ignoring them. There is a cultural reason for this...

Funny how the world trusted us with all that money really (oops....)

JP

[Quinny]

I bet you're glad you didn't return now!