[ReverseEngineer]

OK, looking for advice here on what to do with my 401K from my trucking years.

I got a call last week from some peon broker at Merrill Lynch (apparently they are keeping the Brand Name going in their "Wealth Management" dept even though they really are BofA) asking me what I wanted to do with the money. It was part of a JB Hunt package I got while I worked as a company driver for them. I have to move it out of that into an IRA, or cash it out.

I kind of have been ignoring this money, sort of gave it up for lost but miracle of miracles its only lost about 20% to date. I had quite a bit of it in emerging wealth funds that did OK for a while, I didn't get too beat up by the stock part. Anyhow, if I cash out, I'll have to pay a 10% penalty, plus about anouther 25% in taxes on it for 2009. I don't really need this money right now, so I am toying with the idea of keeping it in the market to play the short game with Smallpox, buying ETFs, that sort of thing. Since I figured the money for lost anyhow, why not have some fun with it playing the game, right?

The downside of this is that if I do it I'll have to pay attention to the market and use up a lot of mental energy deciding what to bet on. Chances are I'll end up losing it or be unable to cash it out if I wait too long, so maybe its better just to take the penalty hit and tax hit and leave with the money now?

If I do leave with the money, just WTF do I DO with it? I'm not going to buy any more food or ammo, the food is getting to be a pain in the butt to store and more ammo would put me in great danger of the Cabin blowing to Kingdom Come. LOL. I could I suppose try to buy some Gold Coins which aren't a storage problem and don't present a danger to the Cabin, but of course I'm philosophically opposed to the PM idea as money and I would feel dumb stuck with a lot of worthless Kruggerands when my Twinkie supply runs low.

So, what to do here? How should RE attempt to secure his Wealth? Remember, I don't really care about or need this money and I gave it up for lost some time ago. Its not a fortune, but its not chump change either. What would you do in this situation?

Reverse Engineer

[Sixstrings]

I would advise a holding position, but not in the market. An FDIC insured moneymarket account perhaps, until things play out enough to get a better handle on the viability of other investment strategies.

[ReverseEngineer]

How should RE attempt to secure his Wealth?

Shouldn't you be giving that to people in your area to help them prep, according to your philosophy?

No, my philosphy is to Save as Many as I Can, and giving away this money right now isn't going to save anyone. Not enough of it. Even Warren Buffett made the comment if he HAD enough money, he would buy up all the distressed assets but he just doesn't have that much, and I have a good deal less than Warren does.

In order to be in a position to save as many as I can once the Shtistorm hits, I have to be as consolidated as possible with some resources, and then be able to lead the Tribe to the Promised Land. So this is about Joseph prepping up for the famine, so to speak. I have the resources NOW, I have to figure out how to store them up to feed the people later. Its not a philosophical hypocrisy, if that is what you were trying to imply

Reverse Engineer

[Tyler_JC]

No sense taking the 35% hit right now (tax+penalty).

I suggest a conservative mutual fund that invests in energy, precious metals, solid corporate bonds, or something like that.

The Permanent Portfolio

These guys split the investment into 6 categories:

1. Gold bullion and coins.
2. Silver bullion and coins.
3. Swiss Franc assets (bonds and cash)
4. Real estate and natural resource company stocks (think Exxon)
5. Aggressive growth stocks (just in case we have another bull market)
6. US government debt (in case deflation continues)

Overall a pretty solid, conservative mix.

It ends up 8% cash, 36% bonds, 36% stocks, and the rest in gold/silver.

The symbol is PRPFX, it has a minimum investment of $1000 with an expense ratio below 1%.

They have a 3 year annualized return of 2.6% and a 5 year return of 6%.

By comparison, the Dow has had a negative return in both the 3 and 5 year time spans.

I don't have any money in the fund (yet) but it has been recommended by other site members before.

[ReverseEngineer]

No sense taking the 35% hit right now (tax+penalty).

I suggest a conservative mutual fund that invests in energy, precious metals, solid corporate bonds, or something like that.

The Permanent Portfolio

These guys split the investment into 6 categories:

1. Gold bullion and coins.
2. Silver bullion and coins.
3. Swiss Franc assets (bonds and cash)
4. Real estate and natural resource company stocks (think Exxon)
5. Aggressive growth stocks (just in case we have another bull market)
6. US government debt (in case deflation continues)

Overall a pretty solid, conservative mix.

It ends up 8% cash, 36% bonds, 36% stocks, and the rest in gold/silver.

The symbol is PRPFX, it has a minimum investment of $1000 with an expense ratio below 1%.

They have a 3 year annualized return of 2.6% and a 5 year return of 6%.

By comparison, the Dow has had a negative return in both the 3 and 5 year time spans.

I don't have any money in the fund (yet) but it has been recommended by other site members before.

That sounds like a nice balance I won;t have to pay that much attention to. Thanks Tyler, I'll look into it.

Reverse Engineer

[Cid_Yama]

SKF - ultrashort financials

SMN - ultrashort materials

You know what you believe. Put your money in what you know.

I've made a killing the last couple weeks and this week will be all doom and gloom.



Happy Bear Dance!

Being long, is being wrong.

Smallpoxgirl got me back in with all her happy bear dancing, and it's been quite profitable. Hell, it's been an absolute bonanza!

http://www.proshares.com/funds

[ReverseEngineer]

SKF - ultrashort financials

SMN - ultrashort materials

You know what you believe. Put your money in what you know.

I've made a killing the last couple weeks and this week will be all doom and gloom.



Happy Bear Dance!

Being long, is being wrong.

Smallpoxgirl got me back in with all her happy bear dancing, and it's been quite profitable. Hell, it's been an absolute bonanza!

http://www.proshares.com/funds

OK, you KNOW this is really what I want to do, just I don't want to spend a whole lot of time watching the market. Can I use these ultra-shorts to say bet the market goes to 7000 in two months and then just wait and see on it?

Reverse Engineer

[Cid_Yama]

Yes, they trade like stocks. You will know when it's time to cash out as the markets will be making this horrible wailing sound carried by all the networks.

[Pops]

I bet a dollar on the Powerball lottery the other day while buying beer.

I'm not much of one to believe I'm gonna win but I don't mind paying a dollar for some fantasy diversion while I do my chores for a week or two.

But in my fantasy I kept coming doing with found money what I did with that I earned...

Buy land.

[ReverseEngineer]

I have the resources NOW, I have to figure out how to store them up to feed the people later. Its not a philosophical hypocrisy, if that is what you were trying to imply

I thought maybe you were trying to test us.

But you said you will probably lose the money if you gamble with it. Can't you just find a way to store more food now?

Besides the food in the cabin, I also have quite a bit stored in an undisclosed location. At this point I have to start worrying about the stuff going bad or getting invaded by bugs even though its packaged up pretty well. Sort of like paying attention to the market to safeguard your money, if I try to store up much more food it will be a full time job taking care of it and trying to cycle through it. The canned goods have to stay in a heated place, so my offsite storage isn't good for that, only dried goods. If any of the packaging gets broken into by vermin, its all toast.

If I gamble this money, if I am right maybe I could double or triple it, and then maybe buy a good Doom-mobile with it, a nice RV for a final Bugout. Not sure what else I would do with it, I can't see buying land or one of the foreclosed houses here. I don't think housing is going to be a problem but a good RV would help for hunting as long as some gas is still around to get.

All in all, its tough to figure out where to put the money.

Reverse Engineer

[mefistofeles]

I don't know about 401K's but I know its possible to invest in physical gold with your IRA. However worst comes to worse you gold just buy GLD gold etf .

Gold, physical gold however is the best. I can't tell you the change I have seen in the gold market. Its hard to find more than two or three coins at most of the stores I have been to, this certainly wasn't the case in January and March of last year.

Also with most accounts, with all the banks going bankrupt you never know whether or not you will be able to get your money in a timely fashion.

If youi have physical gold,access is not a problem.

Gold can also be bought and sold practically everywhere.

Gold also has the best track record, its been use as a store of value for millenia.

Its hard to beat gold from the standpoint of accessibility and history.

Gold is golden.

[ReverseEngineer]

I don't know about 401K's but I know its possible to invest in physical gold with your IRA. However worst comes to worse you gold just buy GLD gold etf .

Gold, physical gold however is the best. I can't tell you the change I have seen in the gold market. Its hard to find more than two or three coins at most of the stores I have been to, this certainly wasn't the case in January and March of last year.

Also with most accounts, with all the banks going bankrupt you never know whether or not you will be able to get your money in a timely fashion.

If youi have physical gold,access is not a problem.

Gold can also be bought and sold practically everywhere.

Gold also has the best track record, its been use as a store of value for millenia.

Its hard to beat gold from the standpoint of accessibility and history.

Gold is golden.

I certainly worry about the ability to get any money I manage to win in the game OUT in time, its kind of remarkable to me that it at least appears I can pull it out now, even taking the 25% hit in losses over the last 6 months and then the additional 35% hit in taxes and penalties if I cash out. If I start playing around now, who is to say I will be able to get my "Merrill Lynch" broker on the line to liquidate it when the market takes a nosedive and I want to reap the profits from shorting it?

The Gold thing is another question entirely. If I was to violate my principles and buy Gold, it would ONLY be the possessible kind of coins, not some paper certificates or digital bits that say I own some gold in some vault somewhere. Might as well own shorts, same problem of actually getting your money out when the time comes. So then two questions arise from this. First one would be can I somehow take the money in my account and use it to buy Gold Coins as an investement and have them shipped to me without taking the 25% tax hit on the money first? Second one would be if I took the tax hit, where would I actually go with the cash to buy some gold coins? I live on the edge of civilization, there aren't gold coin dealers around on every Moose Track here you know. LOL. Maybe there are some in Anchorage, but how many do they actually have to buy, and at what price?

So question for the Gold Bugs here: Can I take my money in my 401K and buy Gold Coins to be shipped to me, and not pay the 25% tax hit since I am buying them as an Investment?

Reverse Engineer

[mefistofeles]

So question for the Gold Bugs here: Can I take my money in my 401K and buy Gold Coins to be shipped to me, and not pay the 25% tax hit since I am buying them as an Investment?

Kitco Discussion on Moving your 401 K into a bullion IRA

[ReverseEngineer]

So question for the Gold Bugs here: Can I take my money in my 401K and buy Gold Coins to be shipped to me, and not pay the 25% tax hit since I am buying them as an Investment?

Kitco Discussion on Moving your 401 K into a bullion IRA

Read it and did not find anything in it that tells me how I could actually get Gold Coins into my personal possession wthout taking the tax hits. It appears to me that even if I tried it, besides taking the tax and penalty hits, I'd still also have shipment costs and by the time all is said and done I cut this chunk of money in half, so I am betting it will at least double to recoup the losses involved. that is even IF I could get the coins shipped to me up here.

Reverse Engineer

[Concerned]

If you don't have some physical gold I would buy some. Bullion too not coins. Aim for at least 20-30% Personally I favor gold not silver. Although if gold starts moving fast you might be able to catch the tail of silver too.

Instead of playing the market I would get into undervalued
- agricultural
- fertilizer
= oil services e.g. schlumberg
= prisons
= pipes .e.g oil sewage
- water (might be bad/risky due to nations just taking over the assets)

Good luck! I personally feel 09 will be a very very difficult year for the USA.

[patience]

Here's A.E. Pritchard's take on where we are now:
Bad news: we're at 1931. Good news: It's not 1933 yet.

Collapse could be closer than we might think. It was in October:
Banks were 3 hours from collapse

Considering that we are probably looking at the Second Wave of financial failures, and possibly a reset coming up, I can't see playing the market now in any way at all. My little "portfolio" consists of cash, period. In effect, I'm selling short US Treasuries, stocks, bonds, and all the rest of the paper stuff. With the proviso, of course, to dive into commodities when I see the dollar tanking. With the very little I have, it can be done fast. At this time, I want liquidity, above all else, because I know that I can't guess the outcome, thus I'd be foolish to play the game any deeper than necessary. I don't think any of us will be able to call the timing on this. We won't get the real news until weeks or months after the fact.

[topcat]

First thought: Why take the 35% hit? You should be able to roll it into another qualified retirement account.

Do you have another 401, 403, or IRA? The one major rub is that you cannot touch the money. The transfer has to go from one entity to the other.

If you choose one that offers more than a few investemnt options, you then can diversify those funds and check on them occassionaly.

OR: maybe a new server farm for PO.com???

[vtsnowedin]

It would be easier to lead people to the promised land if you owned some of it. And when you got there a wind generator on a 100 ft tower might ease things a bit. I'd say pv solar too but your in AK so maybe not. The taxes and penaltys bite. We left a small one in to avoid paying them but switched it to all Tbills for the time being. Anything issued by the US government may be just toilet paper soon so are you sure you have enough ammo?

[sittinguy]

My 401k had many different funds to move the money too. It also had a plain intrest bearing account with no exposure to the stock market. I only get 2% intrest. But its not about making money now its about PRESERVING money.


If it were me I would move most of it to the plain intrest account, Then you don't have to worry about it,, but I would take a little hit and take a little out and buy a few gold coins and a crapload of silver coins.

The mint came out with a new coin last week, UHR double eagle,, its a beauty.

good luck and have some fun with it

[AlexdeLarge]

American Cancer Society Donations

UNICEF