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NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

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NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 06:27:38

WASHINGTON — Only five days into the Obama presidency, members of the new administration and Democratic leaders in Congress are already dancing around one of the most politically delicate questions about the financial bailout: Is the president prepared to nationalize a huge swath of the nation’s banking system?

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has alluded to internal debate over whether large banks should be nationalized, while aides to President Obama have avoided the word and are looking into alternatives.

Privately, most members of the Obama economic team concede that the rapid deterioration of the country’s biggest banks, notably Bank of America and Citigroup, is bound to require far larger investments of taxpayer money, atop the more than $300 billion of taxpayer money already poured into those two financial institutions and hundreds of others.

But if hundreds of billions of dollars of new investment is needed to shore up those banks, and perhaps their competitors, what do taxpayers get in return? And how do the risks escalate as government’s role expands from a few bailouts to control over a vast portion of the financial sector of the world’s largest economy?

The Obama administration is making only glancing references to those questions. In an interview Sunday on “This Week” on ABC, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, alluded to internal debate when she was asked whether nationalization, or partial nationalization, of the largest banks was a good idea.

“Well, whatever you want to call it,” said Ms. Pelosi, Democrat of California. “If we are strengthening them, then the American people should get some of the upside of that strengthening. Some people call that nationalization.

“I’m not talking about total ownership,” she quickly cautioned — stopping herself by posing a question: “Would we have ever thought we would see the day when we’d be using that terminology? ‘Nationalization of the banks?’ ”

So far, President Obama’s top aides have steered clear of the word entirely, and they are still actively discussing other alternatives, including creating a “bad bank” that would nationalize the worst nonperforming loans by taking them off the hands of financial institutions without actually taking ownership of the banks. Others talk of de facto nationalization, in which the government owns a sizeable chunk of the banks but not a majority, with all that connotes.


Eventually we will, so why not do it now? Of course we will not call it nationalization but it is coming.
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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 07:06:14

My question in all of this is the Good Bank/Bad Bank division.

In this scenario the Goobermint and the Taxpayer takes on the "Bad Bank" with all the non-performing assets, while some banksters get to keep the "Good Bank" with all the assets still performing, and reaping the profits.

WHY is it that the Goobermint doesn't take the GOOD BANK, and leave the Bad Bank for the Banksters to deal with?

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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 07:15:51

Because we do not want Nancy Pelosi (or Newt in the past or John Boehner today) setting interest rates and deciding who does or does not get a loan or what interest rate they pay?
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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 07:31:32

wisconsin_cur wrote:Because we do not want Nancy Pelosi (or Newt in the past or John Boehner today) setting interest rates and deciding who does or does not get a loan or what interest rate they pay?


Well, I can't say I am a big fan of Nancy Pelosi or Newt Gingrich, but at least they are elected officials who in some sense in theory I can hold accountable. Why do I want to place all the good assets in the hands of people I don't know, cannot elect or fire , and who distriute out the profits to themselves rather than the public at large? Why should I take on all the bad assets and pay them off when others lost this money? If you are going to offload bad assets into a bad bank, WTF don't you offload them to the Banksters who made the bad loans?

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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby Cloud9 » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 07:34:23

R.E. are you a resident of California?
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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 07:41:11

Cloud9 wrote:R.E. are you a resident of California?


No, I live on the Last Great Frontier. Alaska.

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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 11:18:29

ReverseEngineer wrote:WHY is it that the Goobermint doesn't take the GOOD BANK, and leave the Bad Bank for the Banksters to deal with?


We just had a presidential election. Banksters spent a LOT of money buying themselves some politicians. This is why. That's the whole game in American "capitalism". MANY companies in America are run on a business model where they assume rare but catastrophic risks. They appear to turn a profit for sometimes a couple of decades. Then in one bad year, they lose more money than they made in the last two decades. There was one year back in the 80's where banks lost more money than had ever been made in the entire history of American banking. So that's the game. The banksters get to keep their "profit" from the good years. When the catastrophe comes they plead ignorance, buy some politicians, and dump the whole mess in the lap of the tax payers. It's basically a ponzi scheme. These type of events are predictable. Banks should have spent the last 20 years preparing for this sort of downturn. Instead the plan is make the quick bucks and retire to Tahiti as soon as things turn ugly.
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Re: NYT: A Serious Look at Nationalization

Unread postby yesplease » Mon 26 Jan 2009, 16:45:12

It could be that a bright enough group of people could look for weakness to exploit ala Enron. All the money people lost in their 401ks and the like didn't fall into a black hole. They or the groups representing them made what are in retrospect bad bets, and now someone else has all that cash. Of course at the time, according to all the supposed trustworthy indicators, those weren't bad bets. But if those supposedly trustworthy indicators can be manipulated, then the market can be manipulated, and a group of people, who are almost certainly impossible to trace, that are aware of this distortion, can walk off with an obscene amount of wealth. If this was the case it would be modern day piracy at it's best IMO.
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