[perdition79]

Don't worry about it. The violent rioting in California this week will take attention away from the stimulus plan.

[Quinny]

cbxer If the republicans had won you probably wouldn't have an unemployment cheque.

Don't you realise it might be in a small way, but you are being bailed out!

[miskatonic]

Don't worry about it. The violent rioting in California this week will take attention away from the stimulus plan.

If riots happen at all, it will not be for at least another 3 weeks to a month.

[billg]

Not to mention...

Billions more needed for financial rescue
By DANIEL WAGNER – Jan 28, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration is developing proposals to help rescue the banking system that could cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars beyond the $700 billion bailout Congress already has approved.
Details are still being worked out. But the administration is looking to spend hundreds of billions more to address the foreclosure crisis, help banks get out from under weighty bad assets and expand liquidity programs.
Looming above these is a proposal to set up a federal bank — dubbed a "bad bank" — that would buy troubled assets clogging financial institutions' balance sheets. This would free the institutions to lend money and would entice wary investors back into the market, proponents say.
But the government will have to commit far more money than policymakers were discussing even a few weeks ago.
"I think we're talking hundreds of billions of dollars," said Brian Gardner, an analyst with the research firm Keefe, Bruyette & Woods. "I don't think there's anyone who doubts the administration will be going back to the Hill for more than the $350 billion" recently released from this fall's $700 billion bailout package.
The International Monetary Fund wrote in a report Wednesday that losses from banks in the U.S. and Europe already have topped $1 trillion and could reach $2.2 trillion.
At that rate, the banks will require "at least half a trillion dollars" to remain solvent, the report says.

[Snowrunner]

Believe me, it is not a walk-in-the-park. It is a lot less than what we made working, so we have to cut out a lot. But at least we can keep the house and its bills paid for. Since we do not have car payments or credit cards, and do have some money in the bank. w'ell do alright.

Clearly you must be doing it wrong. I am being told over and over again by people that if you are on welfare it is a golden ticket for early retirement where you make as much if not more than if you'd be working 10 hours a day.

[ReverseEngineer]

Yes, I realize that in a small way unemployment is a bailout. Believe me I wish i did not need it, I would much rather be working. Unemployment insurance is one of the big differences between now and The Great Depression. It gives you a small safety net and some time to find new work before TSHTF. You get about nine months to struggle along before you lose everything.

So its OK for you to have a Safety Net, but it wasn't OK for the poor people who came before you joined the party? Unemployment is just another form of Welfare. Its Big Goobermint sucking out my tax dollars so you can stay in your house. Etc, etc, etc.

Soon enough in CA, they'll be paying out Unemployment in CalBucks. No idea how solvent the OK unemployment fund is, but my bet would be not so solvent. So would you have Obama cut out of his stimulus package the money earmarked to bailout the Unemployment funds of OK? In that case, I doubt you would have 9 months coming to you, unless you take OKbucks and you can use them to pay your mortgage.

Unemployment Insurance worked only so long as the economy worked. You have to have enough people paying into the system to support the marginal number unemployed at any given time. Long as it stayed in the 5% range, it was doable. As it soars past that, its an actuarial nightmare.

If you really were true to your philosophical diatribes, you wouldn't be accepting this Welfare money. Particularly when its going to be funded by the Obama stimulus package you abhor. Its obvious hypocrisy, along with taking the Make Work Job that Obama creates in the next Stimulus package or the one after that.

Anyhow, if I were you, I would get out of the house NOW and save the unemployment money Obama is giving you, or use it to buy more and better preps for your parent's paid off house. You could buy some Solar Panels for the roof, and when the lights go out, you can thank Obama for extending your Unemployment long enough for you to buy them.
Reverse Engineer

[Ludi]

Unemployment insurance is a joint state-federal program, for all states, paid for by state and federal taxes.

http://www.ows.doleta.gov/unemploy/uila ... on2008.asp

[Ludi]

I'm pretty sure most people who pay taxes and get any kind of benefits feel they earn their benefits. Like people feel they earn their Social Security, even though they did not pay for their own Social Security.

[EnergyUnlimited]

You could buy some Solar Panels for the roof, and when the lights go out, you can thank Obama for extending your Unemployment long enough for you to buy them.

Solar panels (or other unconventional access to electricity) are on my "do without" list.

They are inefficient in first place, secondly they are complete waste of money unless you have millions in your disposal and they are total misallocation of remaining capital.

And any failure of range of components related to solar electricity after collapse of grid (means general collapse of high tech manufacturing really...) would render your installation not usable anymore.

And I can assure you that they would be stolen from your roof within first few weeks without light in any case. You could also end up hurt badly if you attempted to prevent them from being stolen.

So if you like to keep them, you should hide them carefully on the bottom of your shed and don't tell anyone that you have them.
Certainly you cannot expose them to daylight.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm pretty sure most people who pay taxes and get any kind of benefits feel they earn their benefits. Like people feel they earn their Social Security, even though they did not pay for their own Social Security.

Huh!! Over the years I paid in over $50K into SS and my employer matched it. Money he could have paid me outright if the tax wasn't there. Now the government may have blown it on something else instead of saving it for me like they said they would but I paid for my own SS as did most of us.

[ReverseEngineer]

And any failure of range of components related to solar electricity after collapse of grid (means general collapse of high tech manufacturing really...) would render your installation not usable anymore.
And I can assure you that they would be stolen from your roof within first few weeks without light in any case. You could also end up hurt badly if you attempted to prevent them from being stolen.
So if you like to keep them, you should hide them carefully on the bottom of your shed and don't tell anyone that you have them.
Certainly you cannot expose them to daylight.

This is why I did not invest in a massive Solar Grid for my cabin, but just a few 5W Panels which are portable and I can set up anywhere that is safe. They are sufficient to charge all my batteries, allowing me to run my laptop virtually indefinitely as long as I can find lead acid car batteries in junkyards.

Eventually these panels will give out, but they are solid state and I figure they have 10 years in them at least if I don't use them except when necessary. If I last a decade before I have to give myself up to the Bear that will be a miracle in itself, so I'm not worried about running out of Juice in my lifetime. Of course, they could be stolen from me at any time, but that would be true of any prep you have.

I am a minimalist. I try to buy only things I can carry with me, so I can set up shop anywhere. I lived for 5 years in my Big Rig with enough stuff to lead a good technological life anywhere I was sent to. This is my Bug Out Kit now. I have more than that, some I will have to leave behind if I don't have a car to pul it with. I can pare down to just a knapsack with essentials if necessary.

It all goes to what you can PROTECT when TSHTF. The bulk of my preps I will protect by sharing with others when the time comes, and forming a Protection Team. Armed to the TEETH. If/when our Survival Group gets too tenuous for whatever reason, I leave behind the bigger stuff I cannot carry and protect, until such time it becomes clear I do not have enough left to make a go of it. If it gets to the point my boots are taken off my feet, its time to call it a wrap here.

I'm prepping for a stage oriented descent. Eventually perhaps I have to walk away as far as I can to escape the maelstrom, but that is not to walk away to survive. That is to walk away so I can die with dignity. I will NOT end up in a FEMA camp. I will NOT answer the ad for workers for the Windmill Farm in Salt Lake City. I will NOT wall into the Human Waste Reprocessing Plant in San Antonio.

Depending how it plays out here, I'll walk out of life in one of 4 ways. My bad habit of smoking will kill me with lung cancer or heart disease. I'll run out of food and starve to death. Or I will be so lost of my preps an means of survival I will walk out into the Alaska Wilderness and freeze to death or give myself up to the bear. Or I will go out in a hail of gunfire when me and my friends make one last stand. I will leave this earth by my own terms. I will not go to the gas chambers.
Reverse Engineer

[patience]

Looks to me like Weiss' analysis is spot-on. His investing reccomendations will probably work to a point:

Quote:
"..from Martin D. Weiss and Weiss Research analysts offering the latest investing news and financial insights for the stock market, including tips and advice on investing in gold, energy and oil."

I'm convinced that we are fast approaching the day when paper investment don't work anymore. Physical gold, maybe, but not "paper" gold, or paper anyhting else. Haven't read enough of his stuff to know if he has a way of addressing a collapse, or not, but that's what I see coming. I'm waiting for more of the analysts to that scenario.

More like this:Time to Prepare for the Collapse

Quote:
"We can live for three hours in the cold. Have a back up shelter plan with a heat source.
We can live for three minutes without air. Have a first aid kit and EMT book for reference.
We can live for three days without water. Get a water filter system and store water.
We can live for three weeks without food. Stock your pantries.

I believe that our time to prepare is short and would encourage all of you to do what you can now. I have already noticed that the shelves at the stores where I live have less selection and fewer items. It is not unconceivable that one day the shelves will be empty.

We will not be getting a bail out, be assured. Our bail out is how we prepare now and how well we do it." end quote.

At least a few of them are "getting it".

[Kristen]

Yes, I realize that in a small way unemployment is a bailout. Believe me I wish i did not need it, I would much rather be working. Unemployment insurance is one of the big differences between now and The Great Depression. It gives you a small safety net and some time to find new work before TSHTF. You get about nine months to struggle along before you lose everything.

So its OK for you to have a Safety Net, but it wasn't OK for the poor people who came before you joined the party? Unemployment is just another form of Welfare. Its Big Goobermint sucking out my tax dollars so you can stay in your house. Etc, etc, etc.
Soon enough in CA, they'll be paying out Unemployment in CalBucks. No idea how solvent the OK unemployment fund is, but my bet would be not so solvent. So would you have Obama cut out of his stimulus package the money earmarked to bailout the Unemployment funds of OK? In that case, I doubt you would have 9 months coming to you, unless you take OKbucks and you can use them to pay your mortgage. -snip-
If you really were true to your philosophical diatribes, you wouldn't be accepting this Welfare money. Particularly when its going to be funded by the Obama stimulus package you abhor. Its obvious hypocrisy, along with taking the Make Work Job that Obama creates in the next Stimulus package or the one after that.

Unemployment is paid by companies, not the government or your tax dollars sir. I am unemployed and have been applying anywhere. Even if I took a job at White Castle, eighty hours a week would only supplement half of my income before and I would barely able o survive.

[ReverseEngineer]

Unemployment is paid by companies, not the government or your tax dollars sir. I am unemployed and have been applying anywhere. Even if I took a job at White Castle, eighty hours a week would only supplement half of my income before and I would barely able o survive.

Hello. When I go to the Unemployment Office, is that place staffed by Private Industry? No, those are Big Goobermint Workers. If the factory you worked for has gone bankrupt, is your company paying your unemployment? They no longer exist.

Companies pay a tax to the Goobermint to fund the Unemployment scheme. They don't do so happily of course. This only came about as the result of FDR and the New Deal, along with Social Security and the rest of the Social Safety Net neocons love to hate. You pay for this in increased charges the companies charge you as the cost of doing bizness.

Unemployment is just another scheme like Welfare or Retirement to funnel money from working members of society to non working members of society. Its part of the "Nanny State", etc etc etc. I don't have a problem with this, but if you are on the one hand condemn the nanny state and then on the other accept the checks from them at the same time, it makes you a hypocrite.
Reverse Engineer

[patience]

RE,

Where do you think the money goes that I pay, as a business owner, into the Indiana Workforce Development Fund? It is an insurance fund. Businesses pay according to no. of employees and their history of layoffs. If I lay off an employee, money comes out of the fund I paid into.

I'm sure this practice varies between states, but follows the same general pattern. I am also sure that your calling it a welfare system is far from accurate. I believe it to be one of the most positive programs in state government. Yes, when the funds run out in something like our current downturn, Indiana will BORROW from the Feds. As in PAY IT BACK, sort of borrowing.

Your characterizing unemployment recipients as welfare bums is FAR from being accurate, or deserved.

[Ludi]

Unemployment is paid by companies, not the government or your tax dollars sir.

"In addition to helping workers and their families, the Unemployment Insurance programs play a key role in helping businesses, communities, and the nation's economy. It was created in 1935 in response to the Great Depression, when millions of people lost jobs. They couldn't buy goods and services, which contributed to more layoffs. "

"Unemployment Insurance (UI) is a federal-state program jointly financed through federal and state employer payroll taxes (federal/state UI tax). Generally, employers must pay both state and federal unemployment taxes if: (1) they pay wages to employees totaling $1,500, or more, in any quarter of a calendar year; or, (2) they had at least one employee during any day of a week during 20 weeks in a calendar year, regardless of whether or not the weeks were consecutive. However, some state laws differ from the federal law and employers should contact their state workforce agencies to learn the exact requirements."


US Dept of Labor

[Ludi]

Your characterizing unemployment recipients as welfare bums is FAR from being accurate, or deserved.

Do you think most people who accept welfare are bums? What about other social safety net ("nanny state") programs like disability? Are those recipients bums too?

[patience]

Well, I don't think so Ludi. I'm not sure about RE.

[ReverseEngineer]

Well, I don't think so Ludi. I'm not sure about RE.

What RE thinks is that in a society as large as the one we tried to run, Unemployment, Welfare and Disability are all quite necessary. What he is pointing out is that all 3 are variants on the same concept of utilizing the productivity of one set of workers to fund those who for one reason or another cannot get a job. Unemployment tends to be a shorter term fix than the other two, although now they are running the dole out to 59 weeks I think, and by next year it probably will be extended again to 2 years. This allows people to say they are collecting Unemployment rather than welfare. LOL.

Now I will stop writing in the third person. LOL.

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy involved in complaining endlessly about Big Goobermint and saying how people have to take care of themselves, blah blah, and then you turn around as soon as the chips are down and are relieved that Big Goobermint is sending you an Unemployment check. This is all part of the Nanny State which gets blasted here regularly, in fact just the terminology used there is ridiculing the social welfare net. Without such a net, what you have is chaos, its a necessary part of running such large societies.

Reverse Engineer

[Ludi]

As far as being on unemployment,
I do not like it one bit.

Probably most people on welfare, food stamps, or disability don't like it one bit either. They'd probably much rather be respected, productive members of society instead of bums of the nanny state. I know my sister, who is on disability, would much rather have her old career back, but that doesn't mean she's able to work a job anymore.