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Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

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Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby eXpat » Fri 20 Feb 2009, 20:31:53

Gone in 60 Days: Citi and Bank of America Won’t Live to See May
If there’s one thing our readers know, it’s that ChartingStocks.net has made some bold calls in the past which seemed controversial and highly unlikely at the time. Our January 2007 post warned of the coming stock market crash at a time when the market was making new all time highs. In February 2007 we warned about the breakdown of the brokerage stocks and singled out Bear Stearns (Trading at $160), Merrill Lynch (Trading at $87), and Morgan Stanley (Trading at 78). In September 2007, we warned of a selloff in the coming weeks. The market peak and decline began 4 weeks later.

We’re going to make another bold prediction. Bank of America and Citigroup won’t live to see May. The two banks will be nationalized in the coming weeks, and we think that the announcement can come as soon as tomorrow evening (Friday evenings are when major bank announcements and failures occur).

The US government has already committed half a trillion dollars to these two firms which is more than 10 times the amount it would cost to buy and control both companies. The market doesn’t believe that $500 billion is enough to save these companies.
All the kings horses and all the kings men can’t put humpty dumpty back together again.

Today both banks made fresh new lows with Citi closing at $2.51 and Bank of America closing at $3.93. The 1 year charts below show the short term price movements. You should understand that when a bank stock’s chart looks like this, even a HEALTHY bank would be in trouble. Nobody wants their deposits tied up in a company that trades at $2. The outflows of deposits from Bank of America and Citi must be catastrophic.

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/gone-in-60-days-citi-and-bank-of-america-wont-live-to-see-may/
Have a look at those charts in the link...
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby truecougarblue » Fri 20 Feb 2009, 21:30:06

TPTB are in the process of throwing WFC to the wolves. I'll bet you a dollar Wells goes under before Citi or BofA.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:05:49

truecougarblue wrote:TPTB are in the process of throwing WFC to the wolves. I'll bet you a dollar Wells goes under before Citi or BofA.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=wfc

Wells Fargo has one of the healthiest financials in the banking industry. a market cap of $45 billion +, on assets of $500 billion.

vs. Citi, with assets of $2 trillion - and a market cap of $10 billion and falling.

it's like playing dodgeball with falling banks.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:21:04

Not worried about BofA because the FDIC is there. It would be nice if BofA was really turned into an American bank, though. The idea of taking away Italy's crown jewel is probably why Ububabauua hasn't done it yet. He's going to piss off a lot of Italians by doing something for US for a change.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:35:31

Senator Dodd Says Temporary Bank Nationalization Possible By Stephen Huebl:
(CEP News) - The U.S. may have to temporarily nationalize certain banks, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said Friday in an interview on Bloomberg Television.

The headlines sent shares of Citigroup and Bank of America down more than 20% on fear they could be involved in any such nationalization plan.

"I don't welcome that at all, but I could see how it's possible it may happen," he said on the Bloomberg Television's Political Capital with Al Hunt, which will be broadcast later on Friday. "I'm concerned that we may end up having to do that, at least for a short time." …

CEP News

Soo. What's the Senate Banking Committee been discussing?
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 21 Feb 2009, 01:56:45

The scary thing is that the banks are so underwater right now that even eliminating all shareholder equity would barely buy them another quarter's worth of write-downs and losses. The current market capitalization of Citigroup is a little over 10 Billion. They lose that amount of money every other month at this point.

The common shareholder is going to be completely wiped out in the event of a nationalization (not that he hasn't essentially already been wiped out by the crash).

Frankly, I'd even be concerned about the bondholders, especially in the case of Citigroup.

The people with deposits under the FDIC limit will be fine. Everyone else will take a major haircut.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby truecougarblue » Sat 21 Feb 2009, 03:22:37

Regarding assets, it should be remembered that what most of us call a liability, a loan, is on the plus side of a bank's balance sheet.

WFC healthy? It is to laugh.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 21 Feb 2009, 10:09:30

The people with deposits under the FDIC limit will be fine. Everyone else will take a major haircut.


I think 'they' can take years to pay-back your money.

Five, what will happen when my bank fails?
Generally your bank will not notify you when bank goes bankrupt. But you will understand soon when your debit card declines or you don’t see bank door open during normal business days. In such scenarios, FDIC steps in and takes a role as receiver. First it will try to sell failed bank to other bank and awarded the failed bank to another bank, bank re-opens with a new name and do a business as usual. Blog post at Finance buff noted that take-over of failure bank is finished by another bank in just matter for a week and business started usual.

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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby eXpat » Sat 21 Feb 2009, 12:40:57

And shares keep falling...
UPDATE 6-Citi, B of A shares fall on nationalization fears
Citigroup shares closed down 56 cents, or 22.3 percent, at $1.95 after earlier hitting $1.61, their lowest level since 1990. Bank of America closed down 14 cents, or 3.6 percent, at $3.79, after falling to $2.53, their lowest level since 1984.

Both stocks have lost more than 90 percent of their value in the last year. Shares of Citigroup rose 27 cents to $2.22 after hours.

Through the close, Citigroup's market capitalization had shrunk to $10.6 billion, making it worth less than asset administrator Northern Trust Corp (NTRS.O). Bank of America, the largest U.S. bank by assets, was worth $24.2 billion.

Both banks have taken $45 billion of capital from the federal government since October, and gotten a federal backstop on losses related to toxic assets.

"The values of the companies seem so ridiculously depressed because no one believes in their values, and no one believes in their values because they think the government is going to take them over," said Ken Crawford, senior portfolio manager at Argent Capital Management.

Crawford said the government could be forced to nationalize Citigroup and Bank of America if their share prices keep falling and their survival is at risk.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idINN2020156620090221
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby TreebeardsUncle » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 03:18:17

What happens to the preferred shareholders when the banks get nationalized?
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 03:31:17

...no one believes in their values because they think the government is going to take them over


No one believes in their values because they have nothing in the vault but IOUs to the Fed and worthless Derivitives and CDSs.
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Re: Citi and Bank of America won´t survive beyond May

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Mon 23 Feb 2009, 05:44:29

40% is likely chosen as the publicly disseminated number in order to "reassure" the market that the Goobermint will not take a controlling interest in the banks. Neglecting the fact that a 40% share is by far a controlling interest in either Citibank or BofA, since no other investor owns anywhere near such a large piece of the pie.

In order to further prop up the banks before true nationalization is forced, I would bet the thinking is that Goobermint purchase of 40% would keep the banks shares from slipping any further, but even if true this doesn't stop the hemorrhagging of funds on the balance sheet. The fundamental fact of life is that these are money losing businesses in a rapidly deflating economy. The fact is that all the assets on their books, from commercial loans to stocks and municipal bonds are ALL worthless, or at least only worth possibly 20% of what they were once valued at. So WHEN (not if) said banks get nationalized, for at least as long as this monetary system is kept floating we get left holding the bag on trillions of dollars in bad investments that are ON the books, and that doesn't even account for CDS and CDO contracts that are off balance sheet. A monetary black hole that never can be paid off of course.

What I find astounding and not the least bit annoying is the refrain coming from the Obama spokesmen that they are "committed to maintaining a PRIVATE banking system" and even if nationalized will return the banks to Private hands as quickly as possible. Hello. The whole REASON we have this problem is because the banking system is held in private hands and not in the hands of who truly should own it, the people of the country using it, duh. That a tiny group of Elite should own and skim profit off an entire NATION is absurd, anti-democratic and utterly poisonous to the country owned by such banksters. If there is one reform that Obama MUST make if he is to truly CHANGE America, it is to do what Andrew Jackson did and KILL THE BANK. However, at least so far Obama appears to be as owned by the banksters as his predecessor Georgie Porgie was.

Regardless of this, Nationalization will take place here simply because these banks cannot pay their bills and they are swamped with toxic debt, which the Banksters want no part of. They WANT to be left with whatever good assets there are to run their private business on the side and skim off those people while the rest of us sink in the toxic mess they left behind. If the so called "good bank" is created and left private, this would speak to the utter corruption of the Obama administration, it must not be allowed to occur. I am hopeful that the demonstrations will prevent it, we will see on that one.

In the short term here, as I said this week should be eventful, we will see if it passes muster among the group members here asa true "bloodbath". Its hard to get agreement on this here, these days entire countries can go bankrupt and its perceived as just business as usual, not a bloodbath. It seemingly must hit the members here over the head, or more precisely in their own bank accounts for it to be considered a bloodbath. A bank holiday or the ATM system going down appears to be the only thing members here would accept as a bloodbath. That I *think* is still a ways off, at least I hope so since it would probably put a crimp on my getting back to the Last Great Frontier on Thursday. Time will tell though, and meanwhile I would definitely bet the market short this week. Should be Party Time for Da Bears.

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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 23:27:03

Cute, but not as funny as the AFSCME video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 23:37:25

The citibank ad is very funny. The AFSCME one, might have been in 1978.
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 23:44:27

cbxer55 wrote:HE-HE. Did you get a gander at the old jalopies?
Or was that how you were dating the flick?


The cars. The clothes. The logo. The theme music sounds like it was stolen from an episode of CHiPS.
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby frankthetank » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 23:53:04

That was awesome! I love the ATM part! We need more laughs like this.

My aunt worked at a factory here in town for about 30 years (its long been closed). She would tell us that when she would walk in early in the morning, she would say "hi" to so and so and the usual response was... "fuck you"!
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 23:55:54

The AFSCME video is a promotional video from the early 80's I believe. Supposedly the voiceover guy did a second version for fun, which is the one linked.

This was in the news recently when a congressman's aide forwarded the video to a reporter asking questions about something AFSCME wanted (it's a union of government workers).
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby Fiddlerdave » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 18:28:22

The Citibank one was fairly funny - until you thought about that every downside the video listed was not nearly as bad as your money not being in the bank when you wanted it.
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 21:32:49

Did you hear the latest? They just they're "well capitalized" and don't need no more f***king gubermint money, thank you!
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Re: The New F***king Citibank!

Unread postby gnm » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 22:35:39

Finally saturated all their CDS with ooey gooey taxpayer money for the next 100 years did they? What a crock of shit.

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