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$50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

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$50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby eXpat » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 12:41:42

Falls in the value of financial assets worldwide might have reached more than $50,000bn, equivalent to a year’s global economic output, the Asian Development Bank will warn on Monday.

Asia has been hit disproportionately hard, the bank will say, in a report that warns of many Asian stimulus plans lagging behind those of the leading global economies.

Separately, the World Bank said on Sunday that developing countries faced a financing gap of between $270bn and $700bn a year as capital flows dried up, with only a quarter of vulnerable countries able to cushion the blow of the economic downturn.

The ADB report estimates capital losses last year in Asia, excluding Japan, at $9,625bn, or 109 per cent of gross domestic product, compared with a global average of 80-85 per cent of GDP. For Latin America, the study estimates 2008 losses at $2,119bn, or 57 per cent of GDP.

“Even as Asia and Latin America have diversified their investment and trading partners, the effect of the slowdown on exports, finance and investment is earthshaking,” the report warns.

The ADB’s estimates take into account falling stock market valuations and losses in the value of bonds supported by mortgages and other assets, though not financial derivatives. About a fifth of the losses in dollar terms arise from the depreciation of many currencies against the US dollar.

The World Bank report said $2,500bn-$3,000bn in public and private debt in emerging markets needed to be rolled over in 2009, most of it denominated in foreign currencies. This would put pressure on developing country governments, many of which had inadequate reserves to help their banks and companies refinance, the bank said.
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3f9a2bd8-0c0e-11de-b87d-0000779fd2ac.html
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby dorlomin » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 17:55:11

$50,000bn,


That will sober you up pretty quickly.
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Homesteader » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 01:55:56

Back of the napkin math here:

Face value of Deriviatives market is estimated at 700 trillion.

Best guess is actual value is 35-40% of face value.

That figures out to about 400 trillion of losses to come in pensions, mutual funds, etc. . . .around the world.

Unless something magical occurs.

added a snip and link:

"He seems to believe that the problem with the assets is not that they are actually relatively worthless, but that they have an “artificially depressed value” that will return as soon as a market for them is created. As Paul Krugman explained:

[S]omehow, top officials in the Obama administration and at the Federal Reserve have convinced themselves that troubled assets, often referred to these days as “toxic waste,” are really worth much more than anyone is actually willing to pay for them — and that if these assets were properly priced, all our troubles would go away

Geithner has posited that the toxic assets have a “basic inherent economic value” that is absent because of “the absence of financing and credit.” Unfortunately, today’s market valuations may reflect actual prices, which would throw a serious wrench into everything about the administration’s plan.

As Financial Times reported, JP Morgan and Wachovia have been picking apart some assets, to see what the underlying loans and mortgages are actually worth, and the outlook is pretty bleak. The recovery rates on some of the junk “have been a mere 5 per cent” and even the best of it is worth 35-40 cents on the dollar."

Link: http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/ ... man-sachs/
Last edited by Homesteader on Tue 10 Mar 2009, 05:21:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 02:05:51

Realistically what has actually changed?

it's not like they piled the paper up and had a bonfire you could see from space.

0's were removed in computers somewhere. Not much different then the millions I put to death when I razed their city rather then install a new government and put up with revolts for a few turns a couple of hours ago.

Perhaps I'm becoming cynical but the "reality" of the world has become so unrealistic it's hard to believe in.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 03:57:09

strider3700 wrote:
it's not like they piled the paper up and had a bonfire you could see from space.


It IS visible from Space. Haven't you noticed that every Volcano in the WORLD is active? This is the Greatest Bonfire of Paper Wealth in ALL of Recorded History, and it most certainly has turned tangible. Its NOT a coincidence.

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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Homesteader » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 05:24:49

strider3700 wrote:Realistically what has actually changed?

it's not like they piled the paper up and had a bonfire you could see from space.

0's were removed in computers somewhere. Not much different then the millions I put to death when I razed their city rather then install a new government and put up with revolts for a few turns a couple of hours ago.

Perhaps I'm becoming cynical but the "reality" of the world has become so unrealistic it's hard to believe in.


'cause real pension funds etc. . . .are holding this stuff. So if the stuff goes away so does a lot of peoples pensions, stock value etc. . .

BTW, I added a link to my original post so y'all don't think I'm pulling monkeys out of my butt.
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby IslandCrow » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 06:30:17

A lot of the 'loss' was unrealised gains. That is people bought shares/assets when they were low, then they saw the "value" go up. Now the value has dropped. Any 'real' loss has to compare the current price with the price paid to purchase the assets, not as a lot of newspaper articles are doing which is comparing the current price with the highest value any share reached.

As much of the 'gain' in the run up in prices was an illusion (for every one who did not sell), so the fall in price is largely an illusion (that is until the holder must sell). It is only when the asset is sold that there is a real gain or loss, anything else is just a pipe dream. Unfortunately, to swell tax revenues many governments have insisted that the pipe-dream is real, and have accounting laws to 'prove' it.

We need a return to historic cost accounting, rather than 'mark to myth'.

At the height of the .com bubble, many people here calculated that the Finnish govenment could wipe out ALL its debt if it sold all the shares it held in one telecomms company. The high value was calculated on the share price, without people realising that there was not enough money out there to sell all the shares at that price (also, typically the government was slow - they could have sold some of the shares to reap some profit).
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Cloud9 » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 06:55:40

It is a bit like going to the Madoff Jewelry store and dropping $30,000 on a four carrot diamond. Some time later the Jewelry store goes bankrupt. You run short on cash and try to pawn the ring only to discover that it is glass. Where did your money go? It went to fun trips to Aruba, nose candy and hookers and you are broke.

Watch the justice system in this shake out and you will discover that there is no justice it is just us!
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Homesteader » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 09:01:49

IslandCrow wrote:A lot of the 'loss' was unrealised gains. That is people bought shares/assets when they were low, then they saw the "value" go up. Now the value has dropped. Any 'real' loss has to compare the current price with the price paid to purchase the assets, not as a lot of newspaper articles are doing which is comparing the current price with the highest value any share reached.

As much of the 'gain' in the run up in prices was an illusion (for every one who did not sell), so the fall in price is largely an illusion (that is until the holder must sell). It is only when the asset is sold that there is a real gain or loss, anything else is just a pipe dream. Unfortunately, to swell tax revenues many governments have insisted that the pipe-dream is real, and have accounting laws to 'prove' it.

We need a return to historic cost accounting, rather than 'mark to myth'.

At the height of the .com bubble, many people here calculated that the Finnish govenment could wipe out ALL its debt if it sold all the shares it held in one telecomms company. The high value was calculated on the share price, without people realising that there was not enough money out there to sell all the shares at that price (also, typically the government was slow - they could have sold some of the shares to reap some profit).



That would be mostly the case if this were a discussion about stock purchases.

However, Mortgage Backed Securities sold at either face value or a slight discount thereof, are now worth, at best 35% and at worst 5% of that face value means that there are holders of those MBS's that have lost a lot of "real" money in that what they purchased is worth a lot less than they paid for it.

That is, there has or will be real loss, not "illusory loss".
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill

Beliefs are what people fall back on when the facts make them uncomfortable.
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Revi » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 09:36:59

I don't think there can be any market at all for a lot of the "assets". According to Financial Sense Online there is no value there at all. They were supposed to be tradeable, but nobody wants any of them now.

A lot of this stuff has no value at all:

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

The idea of getting it and assigning some value to it is ridiculous.

Those houses are worth the value of the lot and the materials that can be scavenged from them.

They are the only thing worth anything at the bottom of the pile of slime they have created.

5-10% is about right. The rest is an illusion.

From the article above:

"This means that the obscene, explosive growth in interest rate derivatives was all about speculation at best or interest rate suppression at its likely worst.

In this regard, utilizing forensic examination, we can see how the practical use for interest rate swaps morphed from its intended use [a hedging tool] to one of excessive speculation and interest rate suppression.

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan was complicit and all too aware that Interest Rate Swaps had been utilized [predominantly via J.P. Morgan’s [now, Q3/08] 57 Trillion Interest Rate Derivatives Book] to “NEUTER” usury. As such, back in 2003, he did not want ANY regulation, intelligent discourse or peering eyes into what was really occurring in the derivatives complex.

In conclusion, any assumption that our systemically broken financial system is going to be miraculously cured or nursed back to health is likely misguided since the players that ‘gamed’ the system have yet to admit what they have done.

It’s hard to prescribe a cure to a malady you have not properly diagnosed."
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: $50 Trillion Wiped Out, Asia Hit Hardest

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 13:49:32

I didn't think money was ever lost, just merely transfered.
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