[3aidlillahi]

[url="http://www.newsweek.com/id/189232"]Gross should be shot[/url] for such a ridiculous and irresponsible suggestion

For our $14 trillion economy to recover and thrive, hoarders must open their wallets and become consumers, and businesses must once again be willing to roll the dice. Nobody is advocating a return to the debt-fueled days of 4,000-square-foot second homes, $1,000 handbags and $6 specialty coffees. But in our economy, in which 70 percent of activity is derived from consumers, we do need our neighbors to spend.

Just when we are starting to get on a track that resembles a good system (low inflation, high savings rate), this jack off wants us to liquidate our savings for a couple of years of "growth". Who's going to follow his sound advice?

[AAA]

Just when we are starting to get on a track that resembles a good system (low inflation, high savings rate), this jack off wants us to liquidate our savings for a couple of years of "growth". Who's going to follow his sound advice?

Every time I hear someone say we need the consumer to spend more to revive our economy I cringe.

[TreeFarmer]

You mentioned shrinking pie. A pie that is just staying the same size will destroy the fiat money / debt system we are using now.

TF

[simplelife]

You mentioned shrinking pie. A pie that is just staying the same size will destroy the fiat money / debt system we are using now.

TF

As long as the money pie stays in line with the real wealth pie (tech/resources/worker productivity). Then fiat can work, but politicly, it may not be possible and they will destroy us trying to grow a fake pie.

[Anjorni]

As long as the money pie stays in line with the real wealth pie (tech/resources/worker productivity). Then fiat can work, but politicly, it may not be possible and they will destroy us trying to grow a fake pie.

Isnt that what has been happening these past few years? Runup of debt = 'growing a fake pie'? Now that fake pie is found out by most, and it has begun deflating like a souffle...

Where we stop know one knows... (besides into the trash like the 'bad' souffle)

[dinopello]

Maybe we will go through one or more of the energy price smackdowns before the general punditry wises up. One of the best things Obama said is when asked if the urgency to do something about energy had faded due to the price collapse, he responded that it was even more important. Whether you like what he's about or not, you have to admit that is a good call.

The visual I put into my friends heads is that the economy is like a bunch of over hyped kids jumping up and down in a room, expending energy. The energy limit is like the ceiling that is slowly lowering. At first, only the highest jumping kid bumps his head on the ceiling and it makes him a little cautious. What just happened is all the kids had a really big jump and all slammed their heads and fell to the floor in pain. They are a little slow getting up, but some are going to get up and start jumping up and down again, only the ceiling is a little lower so they will have to jump more cautiously or they will hit their head again. Eventually, they won't be able to jump at all. If there is a door in the room, they haven't found it yet so many of them will eventually be crushed by the ceiling. The door is to sustainability.

[PrestonSturges]

Want to expand the pie?

1) Spend your money planting trees
2) Pick fruit
3) Bake pies

i wish people would do this with a fraction of the money they are spending on assault rifles.

[Fishman]

Well Preston I' m surprised, I almost agree with you

Want to expand the pie? Sure

1) Spend your money planting trees Agreed.
2) Pick fruit Agreed
3) Bake pies Agreed
4) Watch Obs take my pies and give them to other folks who didn't plant any trees. Nope, sorry.


"i wish people would do this with a fraction of the money they are spending on assault rifles."
I think I'll get a few of these to protect my pies.

[PrestonSturges]

Believe me, any dittoheads come grubbing through my compost heap for edible scraps, they'll risk a sucking chest wound. But if they knock and ask nice, they might be welcome.

[Ludi]

4) Watch Obs take my pies and give them to other folks who didn't plant any trees. Nope, sorry..

I'm guessing you have stopped paying Income Taxes.

No? Just shooting your mouth off some more?

[anarky321]

hahaha Ludi when did you become so mean >.<

here are my thoughts:

save as MUCH as you can (cash, T's, guns, gold, diversify), spend as LITTLE as you can - if your government is going to f*ck you over with taxes f*ck them over back with reduced spending, choke them to death with falling tax revenues - this is realistically the only thing within your power besides anarchist actions like tossing molotovs through a senator's window

once the tax revenues are choked off sufficiently they will either have to raise tax rates or cut government spending, most likely they will rase rates even higher, which will inspire MORE unrest, then you reduce spending EVEN FURTHER, leading to MORE budgetary shortfalls, and in the end this will lead us somewhere, i wont even try to guess where but the current govt will most likely be gone, maybe leechf*ck socialist-capitalism with it

you think those treasury sales can be kept up perpetually? you cant just keep increasing national debt to the sky; every year the interest payments cut into economic growth more and more, sooner or later there WILL be a breaking point

imo the most efficient way of resolving this is a dictatorship in the US - dissolve the senate, dissolve the house of representatives, 0 immigration policy, death penalty for government gorruption charges, death penalty for illegal immigration or assistance thereof, child birth limits per family, etc. etc. - these are things that HAVE to be done to preserve things in any state of order in the coming decades, most people just dont understand the severity of it yet

one man that can say "do this" and it gets done is imo the only realistic way of accomplishing any "change you can believe in"; you think Obama will help you? Obama has already sold out to every special interest group out there, keep dreaming; a liberal government will never have the balls or the cooperation to put these kinds of reforms into place; this is the reason why US govt was on the verge of revolution when ww2 broke out - capitalism is great for boom times but it cant survive busts, not unless paired with a (preferably military) dictator that understands and MAKES the necessary sacrifices (or reforms) whatever you prefer to call it

[Ludi]

hahaha Ludi when did you become so mean >.<

I was always mean.

[simplelife]

As long as the money pie stays in line with the real wealth pie (tech/resources/worker productivity). Then fiat can work, but politicly, it may not be possible and they will destroy us trying to grow a fake pie.

Isnt that what has been happening these past few years? Runup of debt = 'growing a fake pie'? Now that fake pie is found out by most, and it has begun deflating like a souffle...

Where we stop know one knows... (besides into the trash like the 'bad' souffle)

Correct, but the markets are currently adusting the pie to it's proper downsize. Problem is, big gov is in the background trying to bake more fake pie.

[TreeFarmer]

You mentioned shrinking pie. A pie that is just staying the same size will destroy the fiat money / debt system we are using now.

TF

As long as the money pie stays in line with the real wealth pie (tech/resources/worker productivity). Then fiat can work, but politicly, it may not be possible and they will destroy us trying to grow a fake pie.

Simplelife what you say above is correct but only IF the pie is growing. The whole banking system, government financing scheme is based on a growing economy to cover the charges rang up by compound interest. If the pie is not growing you can forget collecting anything but a trivial amount of interest. All the future promises the govt has made are based on a growing economy, growing tax revenue etc. If the pie is not growing it ain't gonna happen.

Some fixed money system (aka gold standard) is the appropriate system for a non-growth economy.

TF

[simplelife]

You mentioned shrinking pie. A pie that is just staying the same size will destroy the fiat money / debt system we are using now.

TF

As long as the money pie stays in line with the real wealth pie (tech/resources/worker productivity). Then fiat can work, but politicly, it may not be possible and they will destroy us trying to grow a fake pie.

Simplelife what you say above is correct but only IF the pie is growing. The whole banking system, government financing scheme is based on a growing economy to cover the charges rang up by compound interest. If the pie is not growing you can forget collecting anything but a trivial amount of interest. All the future promises the govt has made are based on a growing economy, growing tax revenue etc. If the pie is not growing it ain't gonna happen.

Some fixed money system (aka gold standard) is the appropriate system for a non-growth economy.

TF

Even under gold standard, our system was basicly the same, the only differnce was the standard kept the government honest (they didnt cheat and print extra money). If we had honest government, we would not need gold standard.

[Revi]

I think the place to be is in cast iron. It's the new precious metal.

[vision-master]

I'm going to spend on a new fireplace insert for next winter and spend on wood-pellets over the summer.