[threadbear]

This one deserves a thread of it's own.

IMF insider explains the extraordinary ordinariness of the economic situation in the US, and how they are handled by the lending agency, in other failing banana republics. If their strategies work, the country cuts imports, revives export base, and imposes austerity measures. They are usually forced to raise their interest rates, so become mired in deflations or depressions that seem to go on forever. If the solutions proposed fail, or leaders don't abide by them, the country experiences massive inflation. This is one of the reasons we have the ongoing inflation deflation debates. We have internalized the ensuing political elite struggles that ensue, during crunch time. We know in our guts it's a matter of if and how the elite go after their own, Orc like, that determines how this will play out.

The Quiet Coup:

But I must tell you, to IMF officials, all of these crises looked depressingly similar. Each country, of course, needed a loan, but more than that, each needed to make big changes so that the loan could really work. Almost always, countries in crisis need to learn to live within their means after a period of excess—exports must be increased, and imports cut—and the goal is to do this without the most horrible of recessions. Naturally, the fund’s economists spend time figuring out the policies—budget, money supply, and the like—that make sense in this context. Yet the economic solution is seldom very hard to work out.

No, the real concern of the fund’s senior staff, and the biggest obstacle to recovery, is almost invariably the politics of countries in crisis.

Typically, these countries are in a desperate economic situation for one simple reason—the powerful elites within them overreached in good times and took too many risks. Emerging-market governments and their private-sector allies commonly form a tight-knit—and, most of the time, genteel—oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-seeking company in which they are the controlling shareholders. When a country like Indonesia or South Korea or Russia grows, so do the ambitions of its captains of industry. As masters of their mini-universe, these people make some investments that clearly benefit the broader economy, but they also start making bigger and riskier bets. They reckon—correctly, in most cases—that their political connections will allow them to push onto the government any substantial problems that arise.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200905/imf-advice

[Sixstrings]

Almost always, countries in crisis need to learn to live within their means after a period of excess—exports must be increased, and imports cut—

The problem with this part, if one applies it to the US, is that the world just is not SET UP for more US exports. The system is geared for America consuming, and China exporting.

We can't just flip a switch and expect China will buy toys from us and Germans will drive GM cars.

[jupiters_release]

So the IMF's the good guy trying to rid countries of their oligarchs? You believe this TB?

[threadbear]

No, I think the IMF has actually been the bad guy, more often than not. I posted the article to illustrate how they treat small powerless countries that get into the same kind of trouble and have to be bailed out.

I agree Six Strings. The same "solutions" imposed on others can't be transferred to the "too big to fail" U.S. The status quo has already been dealt a body blow.

[ReverseEngineer]

The IMF gets its funding from the Big and Powerful, in da old days that being the US, Britain and Germany. So from whom is the IMF going to get funding to bailout the US, Britain and Germany? In the minds eye of a Bankster, they will get the money from the Chinese, whom they spent the last few years impoverishing in their resources and their ecology, while the Chinese bred slave labor by the millions.

So the wizards at the IMF are now selling the Chinese they need to buy into SDRs as the New World Currency. Which the Chinese, ultimate saps in this game no doubt will buy into. This about instantly turns the economies of the US, Britain and Germnay into the same level of impoverishment as the average Chinese Peasant of course, while the average Chinese Peasant gets even poorer, as in DEAD poor. There won't be any trade, and without trade the Banksters can't get rich. The money becomes valueless as commerce grinds to a halt, already evident as shipping and maufacturing companies are going out of biz by the truckload. The Jig is Up now for the Banksters and for the World as a whole. The only questions remaining are timeline questions, not the actual results of the end game of Capitalism. In the end, 999 out of 1000 are left broke, and the one with the money finds it absolutely worthless because there is nothing left it will buy.

Reverse Engineer

[bratticus]

I couldn't help wondering if the GM CEO being ousted by the White House isn't part of the changes that the IMF wants to see.

[patience]

BO knocking off GM's head guy--Orcs killing Orcs. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch than GM, though. I'm familiar with that outfit, and they are as arrogant and greedy as they come. But now we have a bigger predator in the woods? Not good.

[TreeFarmer]

And I thought this was a banking crisis. Why knock out a car exec and leave all the bankers standing? That is the the question!

TF

[Tanada]

And I thought this was a banking crisis. Why knock out a car exec and leave all the bankers standing? That is the the question!

TF

The lesson I take from it is, if GM had not divested itself from GMAC, its banking arm, then good things would have still been happening for the CEO. Dropping GMAC took him out of 'the club' as it were, and he was no longer an insider.

[Newfie]

I didn't get the idea that he was suggesting the IMF step into the current US financial mess. He was making a parallel to what he saw while at the IMF and then saying that the same changes were necessary in the US. However, there is no IMF to institute the changes, hence they will be longer and harder to come by.

Not an encouraging thought.

[jupiters_release]

The IMF gets its funding from the Big and Powerful, in da old days that being the US, Britain and Germany. So from whom is the IMF going to get funding to bailout the US, Britain and Germany? In the minds eye of a Bankster, they will get the money from the Chinese, whom they spent the last few years impoverishing in their resources and their ecology, while the Chinese bred slave labor by the millions.

So the wizards at the IMF are now selling the Chinese they need to buy into SDRs as the New World Currency. Which the Chinese, ultimate saps in this game no doubt will buy into. This about instantly turns the economies of the US, Britain and Germnay into the same level of impoverishment as the average Chinese Peasant of course, while the average Chinese Peasant gets even poorer, as in DEAD poor. There won't be any trade, and without trade the Banksters can't get rich. The money becomes valueless as commerce grinds to a halt, already evident as shipping and maufacturing companies are going out of biz by the truckload. The Jig is Up now for the Banksters and for the World as a whole. The only questions remaining are timeline questions, not the actual results of the end game of Capitalism. In the end, 999 out of 1000 are left broke, and the one with the money finds it absolutely worthless because there is nothing left it will buy.

Reverse Engineer

It doesn't matter what money's worth, the top banks control all the land, resources, infrastructure, and policy decisions. Your fantasy mind garden is cute though, the imagination of your grade school students must be rubbing off on you.

[ReverseEngineer]

It doesn't matter what money's worth, the top banks control all the land, resources, infrastructure, and policy decisions. Your fantasy mind garden is cute though, the imagination of your grade school students must be rubbing off on you.

They only control such things as long as the monetary sytem holds up. Once the money doesn't buy anything because there is nothing to buy, you can't hold power that way. Then its more old fashioned, a physical fight for survival.

Anyhow, you already see the cannibalism taking place at the top as Pigmen like John Thain and Rick Wagoner are cut loose. This will continue onward until it gets to the top of the food chain as the system collapses. The "top banks" controlling all the land and resources are BANKRUPT. They have no money, other than what they print. I'm sorry you cannot maintain power with Toilet Paper.

Reverse Engineer

[Homesteader]

you cannot maintain power with Toilet Paper.

Reverse Engineer

That is the funniest quote I've read in a long time.

. . .unless your planet is a toilet bowl and everyone is an ass.

[patience]

A parallel and more detailed comparison of the US to a banana republic:

[url]= http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... sions/link[/url]

This guy has it down cold--US is as corrrupt as any have ever been.
Quote:
"the most apt comparison for the U.S. now is not Japan's "lost decade," but rather, "that the United States is coming to resemble Argentina, Russia and other so-called emerging markets, both in what led us to the crisis, and in how we're trying to fix it."

Woe is us. CYA time.

[Sixstrings]

A parallel and more detailed comparison of the US to a banana republic:

[url]= http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... sions/link[/url]

This guy has it down cold--US is as corrrupt as any have ever been.
Quote:
"the most apt comparison for the U.S. now is not Japan's "lost decade," but rather, "that the United States is coming to resemble Argentina, Russia and other so-called emerging markets, both in what led us to the crisis, and in how we're trying to fix it."

Woe is us. CYA time.

I ran across that article too, Patience. At the end of the day, it may not be "the end of the world," but it is a big change. At the least, we're headed towards losing our superpower status and into the same category of states like Russia.

[deMolay]

I think Threadbear that this is the direction that the Internationalists want to see happen. If this is allowed to go forward, they will effectively enslave everyone. http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/03/30/lorne-gunter-the-un-world-currency-how-many-waldheims-in-50-boutros-ghalis.aspx

[ReverseEngineer]

you cannot maintain power with Toilet Paper.

Reverse Engineer

That is the funniest quote I've read in a long time.

. . .unless your planet is a toilet bowl and everyone is an ass.

Wait until FlapJax finishes drawing the second Doomsday Diner strip. You'll laugh even harder I promise Panel 8 of 9.

Reverse Engineer

[jupiters_release]

Then its more old fashioned, a physical fight for survival.

They own all the militaries, a fight assumes they have any real adversaries.

The "top banks" controlling all the land and resources are BANKRUPT. They have no money, other than what they print.

Of course paper money has no value. Real money is land and resources, which they control with military power. That is the opposite of bankrupt. I like your imagination though, reminds me of my Magic The Gathering days in middle school.

[threadbear]

JRelease--The banking elite don't form one overarching monolothic controlling entity, operating in lockstep. There are likely factions that work together, more or less, but cohesion can erode or break down along family lines, when things get difficult.

Why are you so rude to R.E?

[nobodypanic]

Then its more old fashioned, a physical fight for survival.

They own all the militaries, a fight assumes they have any real adversaries.

The "top banks" controlling all the land and resources are BANKRUPT. They have no money, other than what they print.

Of course paper money has no value. Real money is land and resources, which they control with military power. That is the opposite of bankrupt. I like your imagination though, reminds me of my Magic The Gathering days in middle school.

you have to pay your legions.

maybe they'll fight for simple food and shelter; maybe the generals'll figure out that they really don't need the banksters and cut them out. the possibilities are fascinating.