[eXpat]

According to the BBC, quote : "Leaders of the world's largest economies reach an agreement on how to tackle the global financial crisis."
So what is the solution our clever leaders found??
- Commit $1 trillion MORE.
- Sanctions against tax havens.
- Bankers' pay and bonuses WILL BE subject to stricter controls.
- The world's poorest countries will receive extra aid.
I didn´t think that it was so easy after all!!!!

"This is the day that the world came together to fight back against the global recession, not with words, but with a plan for global recovery and for reform and with a clear timetable for its delivery," Mr Brown said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7979483.stm
Now that the emergency is over, i have a lot of ammo and canned food i´m selling cheap, any takers??

[NoWorries]

Well, look at the Dow today -- It's over 8000!

New car sales jumped 25% last month -- That's incredible.

Housing starts are also up.

I don't know what to make of it. But I can tell you this: If this recovery is real, then the price of oil will inevitably climb with the Dow, as the economy improves.

[Voice_du_More]

The recovery is still psychology at this moment, well mostly. But some of the worst is yet to arrive. Agreed that oil will rise even if it is only believed that there is a recovery, peak oil will be in the news again by later this year or early next.

If you watch Gordo on BBC you will here in the last 30 seconds of his speech 'a New World Order is emerging.'

So the train kept a rollin'

[Prince]

Well, look at the Dow today -- It's over 8000!

New car sales jumped 25% last month -- That's incredible.

Housing starts are also up.

I don't know what to make of it. But I can tell you this: If this recovery is real, then the price of oil will inevitably climb with the Dow, as the economy improves.

I still say sucker's rally. Given that another 750k jobs were lost last month, unemployment filers are 25-year highs, earnings are largely expected to disappoint, and the average family is still hurting, I think we are in for another major drop. Maybe I'm wrong, though--the "market" has lost any sense of fair logic and reason anymore.

I was shocked to see it rise yesterday and today when i saw the jobs numbers for March. If you get a chance open up Google or Yahoo finance and look at market indexes from 1929 to 1935. There were periods of ups (10-20% in spots), but the general trend was down.

Sure, we've added several trillion in funny money,and now we've changed how these banks can value their assets, but I just don't see this as sustainable. If I were more careless with my money, I'd be willing to take risks for some substantial short term gains, but there is just too much risk right now and not enough solid evidence to suggest this new rally is based on true growth and expected prosperity.

[vision-master]

The recovery is still psychology at this moment, well mostly. But some of the worst is yet to arrive. Agreed that oil will rise even if it is only believed that there is a recovery, peak oil will be in the news again by later this year or early next.

If you watch Gordo on BBC you will here in the last 30 seconds of his speech 'a New World Order is emerging.'

So the train kept a rollin'

all night long..........

[deMolay]

The world leaders have been drinking each others bathwater in London. Hi Mr. Brown, you forgot to wipe that little bit of Bullshit off your lips, right there at the corner.

[AgentR]

First off, I don't know why we wouldn't think that there would be a recovery and another cycle of growth. The real question is how far into the hole we have to go in order to get this one going and how fragile will the economy be when it once again taps up against the upper bound of the current physical max flow rate of oil and energy. I see no reason to believe that there won't be two or three more recession / recovery cycles before the industrial economies found out what "NO" means.

[skeptic]

So what is the solution our clever leaders found??

- Commit $1 trillion MORE. - which will ultimately make matters worse. It will end up in the fcuked banks, which will hold onto it to offset bad debt, not the productive economy.
- Sanctions against tax havens. - bolting the door after the horse horse has bolted.
- Bankers' pay and bonuses WILL BE subject to stricter controls.[/i] - bolting the door after the horse horse has bolted.
- The world's poorest countries will receive extra aid. - irrelevant. It's not the worlds poorest countries banking/financial services corporations which are the root of the problem.

FAIL.

[gnm]

First off, I don't know why we wouldn't think that there would be a recovery and another cycle of growth.

Because any REAL growth will require a net increase in energy usage. And without production increasing we're not going to get that...

-G

[Arsenal]

With the amount of funny money they are pumping into the system, who wouldn't expect the DOW to take off. That doesn't help the main street problem of unemployment. The DOW could be 15,000 but would it matter if you didn't have a job?

S&L bubble - popped
Tech bubble - popped
Real estate bubble - popped

New bubble?? Dollar perhaps? Treasuries?

Either way it is more time to prep. Chicken coop supplies arrive next Friday.

[CelticCross]

The Financial Accounting Standards Board relaxed the rules on mark to market, as expected. Assets no longer have to be priced at their "current" value. Happy days are here again. Right?

[sihmei]

They can spin the situation all they like, but one has to look at the big picture - to see the real fundamentals of the economy. With oil now peaking, proper substantial economic growth finished, the entire world capitalist system, is over.... forever. We may manage a little half-fake "recovery", but it will be a short and weak affair. Then the next wave of chaos caused by energy shortages hits, then another even weaker and more feeble recovery, then the next wave etc. Hence continues the ever worsening downward spiral until the ICBM's fly and we end back in the Iron Age at best...Neolithic at worst.

[spear]

O'bama just held his press conference,I was watching it on the news,live.

The main focus of his little speech was the G20 agreed to "more market regulation".
Now how one interprets this,I dont know,but it sounds to me like more taxes.

[deMolay]

I really can't see how people think he is a good speaker. One question followed by 20 minutes of er, ah, er, ah, er, ah, etc. And in the end he never answers the question. Hilarious.

[AgentR]

Because any REAL growth will require a net increase in energy usage. And without production increasing we're not going to get that...

I don't recall talking about real growth. Inflationary growth is all that is really in the cards. I think its safe to say everything from Bob's minimum wage, to the value of a ton of gold bars; no real wealth is getting created, but the numbers will get larger, and the government will cook them more to appease the financiers to allow them to continue to accept the fantasy.

In the end, Bob's hour or work will be buying less bread and eggs; not more, but the economy will have "grown"!

After all, it wouldn't do to include food, fuel, etc in the calculated inflation rate, now would it?

[EnergyUnlimited]

They can spin the situation all they like, but one has to look at the big picture - to see the real fundamentals of the economy. With oil now peaking, proper substantial economic growth finished, the entire world capitalist system, is over.... forever. We may manage a little half-fake "recovery", but it will be a short and weak affair. Then the next wave of chaos caused by energy shortages hits, then another even weaker and more feeble recovery, then the next wave etc. Hence continues the ever worsening downward spiral until the ICBM's fly and we end back in the Iron Age at best...Neolithic at worst.

You and few others are quoting oil as a limiting factor to growth.

I think, at the moment there is much more trivial but yet very important factor:
Excessive debt.
Peak oil or no peak oil but excessive debt will still finish off consumer economy in its current form.

[ralfy]

But what about the possibility of foreclosures whent interest rates for Option ARMs and Alt As start resetting?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/ ... 6112.shtml

(see video and transcript)

Also, what about the exposure of U.S. banks to the derivatives market?

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/04 ... llion.html

Finally, from what I know, in order to recover, a significant portion of U.S. debts has to be paid and the U.S. can only do that by exporting heavily and spending (and importing) less. But this will involve low wages and assuming that other countries will be buying those exports. But if these other countries want to do the same....

[AgentR]

But what about the possibility of foreclosures whent interest rates for Option ARMs and Alt As start resetting?

Here is the thing about foreclosures; in a normal economy, where a few houses get foreclosed on now and then, the houses are listed and sold within reasonable spans of time; the banks typically lose a little money on them, but they aren't horrible losses.

NOW, is not normal. without a sizable turnaround, banks are going to do everything they can to keep people in those houses paying on the notes. Whatever they can do to avoid having the real estate taxes and insurance land on their doorsteps, they will do. As this is also in the public policy interest, the government is stepping in to help, in the guise of helping the poor mistreated homeowner. (please don't tell me you believe that party line).

Without intervention or creative "judgment", those houses would foreclose, the notes would become worthless, the houses wouldn't sell, and the loan holding entities would go belly up; and our government is not going to allow THAT.

So, if you're in trouble, and your ARM is about to go nuts on you, go forth unto your bankster and say the magic words, "if my rate resets too high, I'll have to walk away. I hear the Feds are interested in helping us work something out."

Though I will say, I would hope none of the subscribers of this board would be amongst those sitting with ARMs on houses worth four time their annual income...

[hironegro]

But what about the possibility of foreclosures whent interest rates for Option ARMs and Alt As start resetting?

Here is the thing about foreclosures; in a normal economy, where a few houses get foreclosed on now and then, the houses are listed and sold within reasonable spans of time; the banks typically lose a little money on them, but they aren't horrible losses.

NOW, is not normal. without a sizable turnaround, banks are going to do everything they can to keep people in those houses paying on the notes. Whatever they can do to avoid having the real estate taxes and insurance land on their doorsteps, they will do. As this is also in the public policy interest, the government is stepping in to help, in the guise of helping the poor mistreated homeowner. (please don't tell me you believe that party line).

Without intervention or creative "judgment", those houses would foreclose, the notes would become worthless, the houses wouldn't sell, and the loan holding entities would go belly up; and our government is not going to allow THAT.

So, if you're in trouble, and your ARM is about to go nuts on you, go forth unto your bankster and say the magic words, "if my rate resets too high, I'll have to walk away. I hear the Feds are interested in helping us work something out."

Though I will say, I would hope none of the subscribers of this board would be amongst those sitting with ARMs on houses worth four time their annual income...

A ban on foreclosure sales and evictions from houses owned by mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which began as a high-profile effort just before the holidays to keep people in their homes as the government tried to come up with homeowner rescue plans, is over.

Spokesmen for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac confirmed the ban ended March 31, in a response to an inquiry from TWI.

http://washingtonindependent.com/37160/fannie-freddie-quietly-lift-moratorium-on-foreclosures
ruh roh