[Micki]

Mothers Act has been dusted off and is being fast tracked without public debate.
If it goes through all new mothers should have their mental health tested....and if necessary be prescribes psychpharmaca.

And a real kick in the teath is that the full name of the bill is "The Melanie Blocker Stokes MOTHERS Act"
after Melanie Blocker who after being prescribed cocktail of intensely controversial psychiatric drugs including anti-psychotic, anti-anxiety, and anti-depressant drugs before being subjected to electroshock treatment ended up committing suicide.
They name the act after someone they killed. Their arrogance knows no boundaries.

http://discoverandrecover.wordpress.com ... e-stopped/

http://mothersact.wordpress.com/

[Jotapay]

What is the bill number? I can't access the site at work.

[coyote]

Okay, grain of salt time:

antidepressants - which have shown to be no more beneficial than placebo

from the first link. This is nonsense of the first degree. Anyone who has known anyone with serious clinical depression issues can tell you. The subtle ingredient differences between even different brands and generics of the same medication can have drastically different physiological effects. I strongly suspect that the placebo studies were conducted on people without genuine clinical depression, or that the researchers weren't looking at real-world therapy cases - or, most likely, they simply gave a single medication to an entire test group, which would have drastically lowered the success rate. People with clinical, medical depression often or even usually need to try different combinations of medications for years until they find the right "cocktail," the combination that works for them. It will be different for different people. So if a test group were all given the same thing and tested after a month or two, the results would not be that great. And even so, if you look at the actual studies, the medications still beat the placebo by a statistically significant margin.

Just a rant as I happen to dislike this particular misconception, and these folks are using it as an argument against this bill. For the record, I think the bill sounds like a horrible idea.

Edited for clarity.

[RonMN]

Quote:
antidepressants - which have shown to be no more beneficial than placebo

Beneficial or harmfull? That statement says nothing about how harmfull antidepressants may be.

[Micki]

Many anti-depressants like say Prozac, are known to frequently increase suicidal tendencies in the intital weeks or months of use.
What I however find most concerning is the general push to create a nation of pillpoppers and then limit their rights for being mentally ill. It's a stealth declaration of incapacity of large portions of the population.

[jupiters_release]

Quote:
antidepressants - which have shown to be no more beneficial than placebo

Beneficial or harmfull? That statement says nothing about how harmfull antidepressants may be.

There is no such thing as a beneficial pharmaceutical antidepressant. They are all harmful.

[AgentR]

It's a stealth declaration of incapacity of large portions of the population.

Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma.

[jasonraymondson]

Are you all Scientologists?

These drugs do have effects and in a lot of cases they help real people. Regardless of the fact that a lot of people shouldn't be prescribed medication and are, certain people do need it and it does help them.

Normally the people who speak out against psychology are people who were diagnosed with some sort of nutitude but are too narcissistic to accept that they are flawed, so they attack psychology as a coping mechanism. This can turn into a very vicious cycle and can have profound effects on society as a hole. Which is why I believe that people who are diagnosed with a severe mental disorder should be forced to see 3 more psychologists for verification and if all four agree on the diagnoses then the person should be restrained regardless of family or personal wishes until they are willing and able to see for themselves the danger they pose.

We must protect society from those that can't and won't protect society from themselves.

[Micki]

Are you all Scientologists?

These drugs do have effects and in a lot of cases they help real people. Regardless of the fact that a lot of people shouldn't be prescribed medication and are, certain people do need it and it does help them.

Normally the people who speak out against psychology are people who were diagnosed with some sort of nutitude but are too narcissistic to accept that they are flawed, so they attack psychology as a coping mechanism. This can turn into a very vicious cycle and can have profound effects on society as a hole. Which is why I believe that people who are diagnosed with a severe mental disorder should be forced to see 3 more psychologists for verification and if all four agree on the diagnoses then the person should be restrained regardless of family or personal wishes until they are willing and able to see for themselves the danger they pose.

We must protect society from those that can't and won't protect society from themselves.

So you are saying that there isn't a constant lowering of the bar for who should be put on drugs but rather that a pill popping nation like US actually has more cases of mental illness than everywhere else and therefore need all those drugs?

[jasonraymondson]

These drugs do have effects and in a lot of cases they help real people. Regardless of the fact that a lot of people shouldn't be prescribed medication and are, certain people do need it and it does help them.

[Micki]

So is it agreed concencus then that a trend towards making prozac and other psychopharmaca mainstream as the common method of treating depressions is a bad and that the use of such drugs already has gone overboard (possibly through push by be the pharmacutical industry chasing profits rather than more alltruistic healthcare motives) ??
And further that such a trend towards increasing use of such drugs combined with classification of the users as being Known maybe as possible mental cases (yeah, it is eerily similar to how no fly list names are treated as terroists) is going to be limiting to the freedoms of the classified subjects?

[jasonraymondson]

So is agreed consensus then that a trend towards making Prozac and other psycho-pharmacology mainstream as the common method of treating depressions is a bad and that the use of such drugs already has gone overboard (possibly through push by be the pharmaceutical industry chasing profits rather than more altruistic health care motives) ??

What I am saying, is that some psychologist prescribe medication instead of taking the time to sit with their patients, because 1. it allows them to see more patients, 2 they can make more money. 3. They are not very good psychologists and know this, so they prefer to dope people.

Other psychologists who are good, get patients who do not respond to therapy and in order to improve their quality of life they prescribe medication.

Other people mostly psychotics and other severe cases could not operate in any sort of normal functioning manner without pharmacology aiding their diseases.

I am trying to say that some people need that kind of help others don't. And attacking an entire professions credibility for the misdeeds of a few greedy individuals "who should have their licenses removed" does a great disservice to everyone.

[jupiters_release]

People are not psychotic, their society and culture are.

[mos6507]

People are not psychotic, their society and culture are.

Copied straight from John Wayne Gacy's defense arguments?

[Ludi]

So is it agreed concencus then that a trend towards making prozac and other psychopharmaca mainstream as the common method of treating depressions is a bad

Personally, I like the improved quality of life I experience because of antidepressant and antipsychotic.

But that's just me!

[AgentR]

Normally the people who speak out against psychology are people who were diagnosed with some sort of nutitude but are too narcissistic to accept that they are flawed, so they attack psychology as a coping mechanism.

Huge broad brush you're swishing there, no?

Some people are helped, some people are harmed, some people gain no true benefit or suffer significant harm, yet become dependent upon the meds.

If the class of poor results was miniscule in comparison with the class of those truly helped; then you might have an argument. As it is, the meds are prescribed with such reckless abandon that you'd have a hard time demonstrating that something was generally accomplished more useful that simply making millions of drug dependent young adults.

My personal experience with psychology... two extended family members killed and one modestly helped but rendered lifetime dependent on a host of drugs. So, no, I've not been diagnosed with any particular "nutitude", but I think I have ample reason to be skeptical of the profession in general. Does this imply that all psychiatrists are evil, moneygrubbing, or just too lazy to complete a surgical residency? Not at all. Does it imply that I would insist upon one proving that they were decent and honorable human beings before trusting them with a used toothbrush? Absolutely.

[smallpoxgirl]

I feel pretty conflicted about the whole anti-depressant thing. I really can't imagine ever using one myself and I do think that on a societal basis we really are drugging people so that they better tolerate our deeply dysfunctional society. OTOH, I have patients that come to me and tell me about how their life is really crappy and they don't want to get out of bed in the morning and they're super irritable and grumpy with their spouse and their kids. The drugs really do make those things better. It's definitely not something I would push on someone, but if they are feeling bad enough about their life to come and ask for my help for it, I don't really see where I should refuse.

[AgentR]

Personally, I like the improved quality of life I experience because of antidepressant and antipsychotic.

Hmm, maybe I'm just jealous! Shrinks tossing psychoactive drugs out like candy, and I feel like I'm asking a GP to commit a federal crime if I go looking for a script to make my joints stop hurting!

I don't really know which concerns me more though, the look of clandestined worry when discussing listed pain meds, or the profound relief visible when you mention that the script dosage of ibuprofen works well enough to let you sleep at night. Kinda sad if you ask me, docs perfectly willing to prescribe stuff that occasionally causes people to commit suicide or mass murder; but lets involve the FBI and DEA before prescribing something that might make you feel a little goofy before you go to sleep.

JUst one of those things that strikes me as completely out of balance with reality.

[smallpoxgirl]

Kinda sad if you ask me, docs perfectly willing to prescribe stuff that occasionally causes people to commit suicide or mass murder; but lets involve the FBI and DEA before prescribing something that might make you feel a little goofy before you go to sleep.

That's a pretty gross misscharacterization. The link between anti-depressants and suicide is sketchy at best. Any link to mass murder or that sort of thing is purely the fantasy of the defense attorney. Meanwhile the most common cause of drug related death in the US is overdosing on oral prescription narcotics. We get that look of dread when patient's want narcotics because patients frequently lie and/or try to manipulate us either because they're addicted to narcotics themselves or because they're making money selling their pills. What's going through our heads is the twenty phone calls we're going to get about how you need more, more, MORE narcotics. The lame stories about how you lost your prescription. The calls from the pharmacist when you steal a prescription pad and try to write yourself a bunch of narcotics. We get that look of dread because narcotics are always a pain in the butt. They lead to a ton of discord between patients and doctors and they lead patients to Golem like obsession. Actually speaking of Golem, that character was based on a heroin addict, so it's a pretty accurate portrayal of what narcotic addiction looks like.

[jasonraymondson]

They lead to a ton of discord between patients and doctors and they lead patients to Golem like obsession. Actually speaking of Golem, that character was based on a heroin addict, so it's a pretty accurate portrayal of what narcotic addiction looks like.

Where did you find that information? I am not calling you out, but I had never heard that before and have had to study a ton of peter jackson shit

never mind found it. He wasn't designed that way, that is how the actor choose to see the character as a 60 year old heroin addict.