[deMolay]

This is a Canadian article. At what point does a Taxation level become Criminal? http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/burden+heavy+getting+heavier/1551706/story.html

[jdmartin]

I guess at the point that people quit paying the taxes.

The article doesn't really tell you a whole lot. They use "average" rather than "median", which is automatically suspect. There's little discussion as to what benefits (a lot, little, none) are derived from those taxes. There's no comparison with similar societies regarding tax burden.

In short, the article (was it an article or an editorial?) is pretty weak.

[AAA]

Does Canada have tax-free investments like the US?

[odegaard]

This is a Canadian article. At what point does a Taxation level become Criminal? http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/burden+heavy+getting+heavier/1551706/story.html

Why do people put up with this sh!t?
I guess having "Tea parties" must be strictly an American past time.

[Tyler_JC]

What did you expect?

Democracy ALWAYS leads to bigger government.

People are dumb. They want free lunches. Politicians are smart. They "offer" them.

Taxpayers get hit with the bill...

[Turlox]

effective next payday, May 7, 2009, employers in Arizona are required to withold Arizona income tax according to a new schedule of percentages.

The Arizona income tax rate is not changing. However, the witholding rate percentage elected is changing. What this means is that when you complete your Arizona tax return for 2009, the tax liability will be calculated at the same rates as this past year. However, when the Federal Government lowered their witholding tables allowing you to recieve more money in your paycheck starting March 2009 it automatically lowered the amount the State receives in payroll taxes because the State witholding is a percentage of the Federal witholding. In order to bring the amount the State receives back up to the previous level a new percentage table has been created that increases the witholding rate and will be in place until the end of 2009. Beginning January 1, 2010, there will be more changes to the table and detailed information will be provided later this year.

Old Rate New Rate
19 21.9
23 26.5
25 28.8
31 35.7
37 42.6

what all this mean at least to me is that wonderful 20 dollars that I received has now been cut to 15 dollars every two weeks in additional revenue.

[jdmartin]

This is a Canadian article. At what point does a Taxation level become Criminal? http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/burden+heavy+getting+heavier/1551706/story.html

Why do people put up with this sh!t?
I guess having "Tea parties" must be strictly an American past time.

Again, there's nothing to be gleaned from the link. Maybe the people are putting up with "this shit" because they're benefitting greatly. Or maybe they're too comfortable. Or maybe they're just a bunch of dumb asses. Who knows? You can't make anything out of the article...

[neocone]

To my knowledge Indiana is the only state where "increasing tax is not an option".

I believe some States can make a good marketing at attracting self employed and telecommuters... for example if you can telecommute a few days a week, get a house in the midwest and deduct it as office + plane tickets etc...and of course declare residency there.

[deMolay]

What I see in the article is that the average working family now pays more in taxes, than they do for food, housing and clothing. Is that not significant?

[vision-master]

What did you expect?

Democracy ALWAYS leads to bigger government.

People are dumb. They want free lunches. Politicians are smart. They "offer" them.

Taxpayers get hit with the bill...

Tune in, turn on and drop out.

[neocone]

What did you expect?

Democracy ALWAYS leads to bigger government.

People are dumb. They want free lunches. Politicians are smart. They "offer" them.

Taxpayers get hit with the bill...

This is why Fascism makes sense... a Leader appoints subordinates that answer to him, not their subordinates... (The leader principle).

And those selected to lead are so based on personal achievements and strength of will and education, which makes it different from feodalism.

Most countries that became great over the millenia did so because a good leader was found to catalyze and lead the way.

I do not believe Obama is such a leader... more like Bush lite.

And strangely the gangrene of Communism is now back, heeling its hydra head in Venezuela and Cuba and now in Canada:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Life/Stu ... story.html

[odegaard]

People are dumb. They want free lunches. Politicians are smart. They "offer" them.
Taxpayers get hit with the bill...

Tune in, turn on and drop out.

I once asked a Liberal, "Show me an example of Liberalism done right"
The person replied with no hesitation: SWEDEN

After doing a little research I have found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incom ... ountry.svg
Sweden has:
low corporate tax rates = less than 30% (less than the USA)
high personal tax rates = almost 50% (much higher than the USA)
So the truth has been revealed.
Sweden has very "Conservative" tax rates for big businesses but very "Liberal" tax rates for individuals.

People are dumb. They want free lunches. Politicians are smart. They "offer" them.
Taxpayers get hit with the bill...

I totally agree.

[deMolay]

Part of the reason the tax burden is so high is the size of Government. Look at these perks that Gov. Employees made sure they had, all nice secure pensions and entitlements. How does your pension plan compare. http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/05/4820-california-govt-workers-collect.html

[jboogy]

marginal taxation rates are about as low as they've ever been. So quit your pissin' and moanin'.

tax rates are much higher in western europe/australia/canada......yet their people are much happier,live longer, are better educated, have free health care,free higher education, gauranteed pensions, longer paid vacations, retire earlier, ....all while working fewer hours for fewer years.

look at where we rank in standard of living
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

[Tyler_JC]

My problem with the Human Development Index is that it is based on a bunch of statistics that don't mean anything.

Example: Education Index.

Brazil outranks the United States, France, Belgium, Germany, and Japan.

The occupied Palestinian territories outrank Hong Kong.

Does that make sense to anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

[odegaard]

My problem with the Human Development Index is that it is based on a bunch of statistics that don't mean anything.
...

+1

It is a fact that the USA beats western Europe hands down when looking at "normal" economic indicators such as GDP per capita, employment rates, and especially disposable income.
Naturally this has gotten a lot of Liberals upset.
Because according to their ideology more government social welfare (something Europe is known for) is suppose to equal more prosperity but that is obviously not showing up in the economic statistics.
So what's a blind ideologist suppose to do when the cold hard facts do NOT support their ideology?

Why yes of course invent a new statistical index using "cherry picked" numbers to make whatever claim.
Ladies and Gentleman --> that is how the human development index got invented.

[odegaard]

marginal taxation rates are about as low as they've ever been. So quit your pissin' and moanin'.

tax rates are much higher in western europe/australia/canada......yet their people are much happier,live longer, are better educated, have free health care,free higher education, gauranteed pensions, longer paid vacations, retire earlier, ....all while working fewer hours for fewer years.

jpg
There was never a denial that you can receive more government services providing that you pay more taxes.
The formula is simple.
If you pay $1 in taxes you will receive $1 in government services.
If you pay $2 in taxes you will receive $2 in government services.

The problem I have with your argument is you make it sound like the Europeans have found some clever way to receive $2 in government services but only pay $1.
Sorry I'm NOT buying that argument.
I prefer the American system.

[jboogy]

odegaard wrote

My problem with the Human Development Index is that it is based on a bunch of statistics that don't mean anything.

he then proceeds to refute my argument with a bunch of statistics that don't mean anything

It is a fact that the USA beats western Europe hands down when looking at "normal" economic indicators such as GDP per capita, employment rates, and especially disposable income.

you're right about that GDP odius-one, why just the other day while I was trying to figure out how I was going to come up with the money to fix my painfully cracked tooth, I was comforted by the knowledge that for years while I was in my twenties and thirties, I worked a bunch of hours and produced parts out the ying-yang, so I could have a nice inground pool and pour money into various old cars and trucks, all of which I left behind in PA. I also enjoy contentment knowing that more of my countrymen have to work than in European countries, if you believe the employment statistics from the federal government, and if you conveniently ignore the 600,000 jobs we've been losing per month for the last year or so. Disposable income? well that is something I guess, but what if your extra income is required to purchase health insurance premiums, college tuition, investment in a 401k ( of which a large chunk has recently disappeared), gasoline to commute two hours a day to a job, day-care for the little ones(government subsidized in many european countries), etc.

odegaard wrote

So what's a blind ideologist suppose to do when the cold hard facts do NOT support their ideology?

I was about to ask you the same thing

Who in their right mind is going to refute indicators such as how happy or comfortable or secure or free from want a populace is, with statistics that say ...." well ...we produce more per person and we have more money to buy stuff your government provides for free, and by the way , we all have to work our asses off over here or we live in a box under the overpass...so there"

[Ludi]

" well ...we produce more per person and we have more money to buy stuff your government provides for free, and by the way , we all have to work our asses off over here or we live in a box under the overpass...so there"

Hey, it's the old Protestant Work Ethic. "We work harder therefore we're morally superior to those who work less hard."

[vision-master]

" well ...we produce more per person and we have more money to buy stuff your government provides for free, and by the way , we all have to work our asses off over here or we live in a box under the overpass...so there"

Hey, it's the old Protestant Work Ethic. "We work harder therefore we're morally superior to those who work less hard."

Lazybones