[Beery1]

The authors demonstrate that it is technically feasible to make hydrogen from water, sunlight and a metal oxide.

That's great. But the tagline claimed it was a "sustainable energy breakthrough". I'm wondering about the "sustainable" part. Is it ecologically sustainable?

If not, then it's just another problem, not a solution.

[Graeme]

Are you saying sunlight is unsustainable?

[Beery1]

Are you saying sunlight is unsustainable?

I sincerely hope your flippant response does not indicate a superficial knowledge of this issue. I hope you are not seriously saying that you haven't bothered to look beyond the energy used in this contraption.

I'm suggesting that sunlight is the ONLY part of it that is sustainable. If this apparatus was made purely from sunlight, you might have a point, but it isn't. There is a 700ft tower, 40 acres of mirrors, metal oxides, etc. The raw materials need mining and the installation needs manufacturing and maintaining, and you need energy storage and transport, and waste toxicity needs to be gauged, mitigated and and any waste products stored. For something to be sustainable, every aspect of it (not just the energy it uses) needs to be sustainable.

If no one has even bothered to think about this, the term 'sustainable' is a joke.

I think we need to ask ourselves if we're willing to look at this sort of stuff seriously, or is this just a place to post superficial technology hype? If the former, then those who post links to projects like this should be willing to defend them. If the latter, then flippant answers and evasions are fine, but no one is going to take much of what is posted very seriously.

[Graeme]

Fortunately, there are many ways to make hydrogen. The use of solar towers is just one, and that may turn out to be the most sustainable way. Can you point to any metal in the towers or the process that would make it unsustainable? Is it unsustainable once it is constructed? Then an evaluation of all methods of hydrogen production needs to me done to see which is the most economical and in our best interest.

[Graeme]

Fuel cell vehicles will reach US$73.8 billion in annual market value by 2030

While fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) have the potential to offer significant benefits – including lower emissions and reduced petroleum consumption – compared to today's automobiles, they also face big challenges. Makers of FCVs are focused on reducing costs and establishing refueling infrastructure in order to prepare for commercial introductions of models in the 2015-2017 timeframe. According to Navigant Research, worldwide revenue from FCVs will grow from US$194 million in 2015 to US$73.8 billion in 2030.

"The center of gravity in the development of FCVs has shifted from the US to Western Europe," said Lisa Jerram, senior research analyst with Navigant Research. "Germany, the UK, and the Nordic countries have less geography to cover than the US, and are forging ahead on plans to deploy hydrogen fueling stations."

Fundamentally, the FCV market is dependent on the development of infrastructure, which will determine the timing and volume of automaker FCV rollouts. This challenge could forestall commercial deployment, the firm said. Given the length of time it takes to build a station – 18 months to three years – it seems likely that that there will be sparse fueling station coverage in the 2015-2017 timeframe, which will lead automakers to take a slow approach to their commercial vehicle rollouts, Navigant Research believes.

etmag

[Graeme]

Hydrogen: The car fuel of the future?

A small British firm is looking forward to a day in which we will take our cars to the garage and fill them with hydrogen.

Acal Energy, based in Runcorn in Cheshire, says it has developed a chemistry that could make hydrogen fuel cells much cheaper and longer-lasting than current technologies.

It wants to license its chemistry to the world's car-makers, opening the way for hydrogen vehicles to sell in large volumes in 10 or 20 years' time.

"We believe this is one of the breakthrough technologies," says Brendan Bilton, the company's chief commercial officer.

"We're pretty confident and excited... that this will start unlocking the barriers," he continues, "Allowing fuel cells to be in products for mass market applications."


Acal Energy claims the problem with this current technology is that it results in fuel cells that are either prohibitively expensive because of the high platinum content, or prone to degrade quickly.

To get round these issues, the company has developed what Mr Bilton describes as a "liquid catalyst" composed of "a dissolved solution of metal salts".

As well as being a lot cheaper than a platinum catalyst, the liquid doubles up as a coolant and a cleaning agent that extends the life of the fuel cell by taking away damaging by-products as it circulates through a "regenerator".

"We have a solution that both increases durability and reduces cost," says Mr Bilton.

bbc

[Graeme]

GM partners with U.S. Military to develop next-gen of hydrogen cars and tanks

If the recent expansions of the hydrogen filling station network were not enough there is another reason to be optimistic about the future of hydrogen cars. Today General Motors announced that it will be partnering with the United States military in pioneering new fuel cell technology.

GM will be working with the U.S. Army Tank Automotive Research, Development & Engineering Center (TARDEC) – fully one quarter of defense spending must go to acronyms – on developing and testing new fuel cell materials and designs.

GM has already been a leader in the field of fuel cells, having filed more fuel cell patents than any company in the last decade. I had to double check this because I am just so unused to any American automaker being the leader in anything to do with alternative fuel. But it turns out its true. Go figure.

One of the major goals for both GM and TARDEC is to improve hydrogen storage. Currently, hydrogen storage requires using complicated, expensive, and potentially unsafe high-pressure storage tanks. Whether you want to build a safe commuter car or a for tank driving over IEDs, the last thing you want is a fragile fuel cell packed with hydrogen.

The research itself will take place at both GM’s new lab and TARDEC’s state of the art facility in Warren, Michigan. It may be a long way from the factory floor, but it is always good to see signs of life from the automotive industry on its home turf.

digitaltrends

[Graeme]

Linde hydrogen fuel stations reach milestone in the US

The Linde Group, a leading producer of natural gases, has announced that its hydrogen fuel stations in the U.S. have reached a major milestone. The company has been building hydrogen fuel stations throughout the world in the hopes of bolstering the fuel infrastructure needed to support hydrogen-powered vehicles. These vehicles are expected to hit roads en masse beginning in 2015. Without the support of a comprehensive hydrogen fuel infrastructure, these vehicles are not likely to find any success.

Stations reach 500,000 fills

According to Linde, its hydrogen fuel stations in the U.S. have hit the 500,000 fill milestone. These stations have provided fuel to a variety of vehicles that are equipped with fuel cells. These fuel cells use hydrogen to generate electrical power. These vehicles have become quite common in the materials handling space, where fuel cell-equipped forklift trucks and other such vehicles are beginning to replace those powered by traditional batteries. Hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles are also becoming somewhat common throughout the U.S.

hydrogenfuelnews

[Graeme]

Toyota Shows Hydrogen Prototype in Race Toward Fuel Cells

Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) has long held out hydrogen as the ultimate alternative to gasoline for powering autos. Soon, consumers will be able to kick the tires of its fuel cell-powered car and those of other automakers.

To demonstrate how far hydrogen cars have come since the early 2000s, Toyota gave test drives of a small, prototype sedan in Japan this week. A similar vehicle with a different exterior will debut at next month’s Tokyo Motor Show. The car, which showed quick acceleration and sharp handling, will arrive in the U.S., Japan and Europe as early as next year as a 2015 model.

“Earlier would have been better, but it’s taken a long time to get to this point,” said Satoshi Ogiso, the Toyota engineer managing its fuel cell development and electric-drive vehicle programs, in an interview in Tokyo yesterday. “We’ve already started work on the next-generation vehicle. We can’t wait.”

While Toyota is racing to establish itself at the leader in this technology, it has a lot of company. Honda Motor Co., Hyundai Motor Co. (005380), Daimler AG (DAI) and General Motors Co. (GM) have poured billions of dollars into fuel cells since the 1990s, spurred by hydrogen’s allure as an abundant, low-carbon fuel.


Solving those mean hydrogen vehicles may not be a “significant technology” until 2018 or 2020, said Alan Baum, an independent auto analyst at Baum & Associates in West Bloomfield, Michigan.
“I see fuel cells as a technology for the decade of the 2020s, with a small but growing ramp-up in the first half of the decade, not unlike what we are seeing now with EVs,” he said.

bloomberg

[Graeme]

Toyota Details Hydrogen Powered FCV Concept Ahead Of Tokyo

Toyota has released images and details of its new hydrogen fuel-cell powered FCV concept, set to be unveiled at this month’s Tokyo Motor Show.

The new concept is loosely based on the FCV-R concept, also a medium four-door sedan that first appeared at the Tokyo show in 2011.

The FCV is 35mm longer, 20mm wider and 25mm higher than the FCV-R, measuring 4,870mm long, 1,810mm wide and 1,535mm high while the wheelbase has grown 80m to 2,780mm.

Toyota’s hydrogen fuel-cell technology was first unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show, minus the car. It consists of a modified version of the Hybrid Synergy Drive system, borrowed from the Prius.

The lightweight fuel-cell stack consists of two 70MPa high-pressure hydrogen tanks and has a 3kW/l power output density with a maximum power rating of at least 100kW. It is also fitted with a high-energy boost converter.

Toyota claims the system has a range of at least 500km and can be refuelled in as little as three minutes.

themotorreport

[ralfy]

"Hopium for the masses, renewable energy edition"

http://transitionvoice.com/2013/11/hopi ... y-edition/

[ROCKMAN]

“Hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles are also becoming somewhat common throughout the U.S.” I guess some folks have a very different definition of “common” than I do given the hydrogen vehicles make up less than 1% of the current US vehicle population. And based upon the numbers offered by the folks who will actually build those vehicles it doesn’t sound like that number will increase very quickly regardless of how many refueling stations are built.

From: http://www.defenddemocracy.org/media-hi ... ependence/

“Honda president Takeo Fukui told the New York Times that each unit of the Clarity costs several hundred thousand dollars to produce, but “said that should drop below $100,000 in less than a decade as production volumes increase.” Toyota has made a similar promise, vowing to reduce the price tag for a fuel cell car from $1 million today (a price that is largely theoretical) to $50,000 by 2015.”

So for the next 10 years the Hondas will run over $100k but the Toyotas will run around $50k in just 2 years despite the fact that they haven’t built any yet at the theoretical price of $1 million? I think I’ll just let the words of the “experts’ speak for themselves. In the meantime I'll continue to be happy with my $17k Kia that gets 23 mpg.

[Graeme]

Air Liquide Plans for Long-Term Growth in Hydrogen-Powered Cars

Air Liquide SA (AI) is expanding its business building filling stations for hydrogen-powered cars as it predicts growing demand for the vehicles that emit only water by using fuel cells to generate electricity.

“In territories like Germany or France, you need about 1,000 stations” for full coverage, Pierre-Etienne Franc, head of the Advanced Business and Technologies unit, said in an interview at the French gas maker’s research center in Sassenage near Grenoble. “It takes about 10 billion euros ($13.7 billion) to build a decent fuel-cell infrastructure in Europe.”

The company has built more than 60 hydrogen filling stations worldwide and agreed in September with partners including Linde AG (LIN) to expand Germany’s network of 15 hydrogen filling stations to 100 by 2017 and 400 by 2023.

“In the long term, whether it’s five, 10 or 20 years, we’ll have to move to fuel cells, or let the planet burn,” Franc said. “If we want to de-carbonate transports, we won’t have the choice because there won’t be enough bio-fuels, batteries don’t provide enough autonomy, and hybrids don’t solve the problem.”

bloomberg

[Graeme]

'Next step’ in hydrogen infrastructure launched

The first of Air Products’ SmartFuel® hydrogen high pressure tube trailers in Europe was launched yesterday, capable of transporting large volumes of hydrogen at high pressure to its growing network of SmartFuel® hydrogen fuelling stations.

The trailer is the first of a fleet of new design, higher pressure hydrogen tube trailers due to be deployed in the coming months.

A significant enhancement on the existing 200 bar industrial hydrogen delivery models, the state-of-the-art tube trailer features specialised composite cylinders for hydrogen storage that enable cost effective hydrogen from central production facilities, delivered directly to the fuelling station at a pressure well above 350 bar.

This increased pressure removes the need for onsite compression for 350 bar vehicle refuelling and significantly reduces site compression for 700 bar vehicle refuelling. Station operators see this benefit translated into lower capital investment in the station hardware, as well as a marked reduction in station operating costs.

Minimising the need for compression on-site naturally leads to higher levels of reliability, as Air Products has demonstrated first hand at its SmartFuel® bus refuelling station in London – where high on-stream levels are consistently in line with industry expectations. The SmartFuel® high pressure tube trailer delivery concept also significantly reduces the space needed to deploy hydrogen refuelling stations, particularly compared with onsite hydrogen production solutions, such as electrolysis.

gasworld

[Keith_McClary]

"Our objective is to produce hydrogen (H2) at $2/kg H2," Weimer tells Gizmag. "This is equivalent to about US$2/gallon (3.7 L) of gasoline based on mileage in a fuel cell car versus a combustion engine today."

I tried to Google the retail price of H2 but no luck.
If it is widely used for indoor forklifts there must be places selling it.

Is it currently made from NG (so the price is tied to NG)?

[Graeme]

I found this site.

[Keith_McClary]

I found this site.

Thanks.

Some puzzling statements on that page, though:

Miles per kg of Hydrogen: 81
Miles per Gallon of Gasoline: 18 – 31
1 kilogram is 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent (gge)

[hvacman]

So that hydrogen site touting the superiority of H2 reports it requires between 32-60 kWh to make one kg H2, which will take you 81 miles. This is 1.35-2.5 miles/kWh. Current-generation EV's like the Leaf, Volt, and Model S, already get 3-4 miles/kWh - double to triple the efficiency of electrically-produced H2 - without even considering compression and distribution inefficiencies of H2 plus costs to build its new infrastructure. EV's have their own limitations, but H2 is a dead-end. Hydrogen will drive change alright - all that change right out of our pockets, wallets, and bank accounts into the big energy providers hands. How stupid do they think we are?

[Graeme]

Welcome to PO.com!

Is hydrogen fuel making a comeback?

Hydrogen is now back on the agenda, for three main reasons.

First, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can still provide a much greater range than battery electric vehicles, with a refuelling time of less than five minutes compared to six to eight hours for batteries.

Second, the costs of producing hydrogen from renewables by water electrolysis, and of fuel cells, have fallen over the past decade as dramatically as that for solar panels. For example, the high-volume production cost of fuel cells fell from $275 per kilowatt in 2002 to only $51 per kilowatt.

Third, we now understand that there are many severe constraints on biofuel production. These include competition with food production, and the use of water, land, and fertilisers.

reneweconomy

Hyundai On Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Vehicles: Critiquing Its Claims

The piece summarizes those issues in three statements:

Grid-powered cars have lower wells-to-wheels greenhouse-gas emission than hydrogen-fueled cars;
The cost of hydrogen infrastructure poses a fundamental barrier to widespread deployment of hydrogen vehicles; and
Slow charging of plug-in cars is offset by the convenience of overnight home charging, impossible for hydrogen cars.
We think that's a fair summary of the main arguments.

New UC-Irvine study

Addressing the wells-to-wheels carbon footprint issue, the piece notes that a recent analysis by the Advanced Power and Energy Program, at the University of California at Irvine shows essentially equivalent greenhouse-gas emissions for hydrogen and battery vehicles when accounting for all inputs, including "feedstock, production, transmission and consumption."

Battery-powered vehicles have "a small advantage in California based on the cleaner grid here, while [fuel-cell vehicles have] a small advantage on a national basis," she continues.

greencarreports

[Outcast_Searcher]

So for the next 10 years the Hondas will run over $100k but the Toyotas will run around $50k in just 2 years despite the fact that they haven’t built any yet at the theoretical price of $1 million? I think I’ll just let the words of the “experts’ speak for themselves. In the meantime I'll continue to be happy with my $17k Kia that gets 23 mpg.

Somehow, using arithmetic around people with dreams of magically transforming the world (and all the inconvenient facts that make dealing with it so darn inconvenient), is politically incorrect.

Whether pointing out that money for social programs doesn't magically fall from unicorn based trees, or that just saying the words "Hydrogen Vehicle" doesn't make that an economically viable technology.

Now I'll go away again, as the pundits for political correctness will say me point out economic reality is "simply mean spirited".