[bodigami]

i am wondering of alternative forms of money; ways of commercial exchange that have arised in economies (from cocoa seeds to gold coins). money used to have an inherent value, the unit of exchange could be used for something (it had value in itself).

but now money has no value. central banks all around the world have a monopoly on their respective countries to print money and rent/sell it for a much higher price than what it cost.

now imagine each bill you use as plain a4 paper cutted in that size, and what you get in return... that's the percentage of fraud of the central banks. imagine using actual paper, the one you use to write or print, as money. no need for central banks, but then you may become depressed by how much and for how long you worked for something that has no inherent value at all.

how the f_ do people keep this worldwide fraud?! ...this lie, this criminal act of "money issuance".

"people can do whatever their society let them get away with"
"authorities extend their power as far as their pawns let them"

[Micki]

Clearly another case of a boiling from and massive amounts of misinformation. As long as the bulk of the people can be kept sheeple, the ones in the know can make money out of it.
Back in the 30s there were infomercials about the blessing of small amounts of inflation and how the intelligent bankers always could balance the purchasing power of money to ensure optimal running of economy whilst protecting the purchasing power.

VIntage inflation propaganda;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Dzdc1H0wM

Quite interesting are also some FDR speaches etc that are available;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFvrL_nq ... re=related

Common thread seems to be that people are told they don't understand banking.
Instead they were educated to crave inflation, Even if it tood a depression to do so.

Secondly what US for instance did was to remove the backing in several steps not resulting in any major change at once. i.e. prohibit private ownership of bullion, bretton woods, petrodollar implementation and Nixon closing of gold window.
As a result people didn't notice any change from one day to the next. Instead inflation was left to do the work it does best, to confiscate wealth through stealth, a process that 9 out of 10 people would not be able to identify.

Furthermore it is all framed in the assumption that the government wouldn't allow anything that wasn't good for it's citizens. Government should therefore be left to do what ever it thought necessary.
Hindsight....what a laugh.

[Novus]

Most paper money regimes are frauds to turn over real goods and services for something doesn't have value.

One of the better money systems that ever existed was the Japanese Ryo 両 that came before the Yen. One Ryo was equal to one bushel of rice. Ryo and rice were completely interchangeable to each other so any rice farmer could print as much Ryo as they wanted by simply planting more rice and turning the bushels of rice over to the rice grainery. Those who were paid in paper Ryo could turn the slips of paper over to the grainery and get bushels of rice. Taxes were collected in the form of Ryo and paid over to government officials in the form of stipends. There was no interest and the total number of Ryo in circulation never exceeded the Rice in the graineries. This system worked very well for them from around 1500 to mid 1800s when Westerners convinced them to go to the gold standard which allowed interest banking. It all went to hell from there.

I can see the Japanese going back to the Ryo at some point after they power down. Maybe us in the West could learn something from sustainable money as well.

[Micki]

Just thougth of Thailand as an example where the name of the currency indicates it's past as being backed..
Originally the Thai currency was based on the weight of ~15gr (1 Baht) silver coin.
So the currency is actually named after the weight.
Still today gold weight tends to be measured of Baht rather than grams or ounces. So 1 baht (weight) gold is 8000 baht (nominal currency) paper.

[spotacus]

A currency named after a weight of silver? they have strange ways these easterners. How many Bahts would I get for my pound?

[dsula]

i am wondering of alternative forms of money; ways of commercial exchange that have arised in economies (from cocoa seeds to gold coins). money used to have an inherent value, the unit of exchange could be used for something (it had value in itself).

but now money has no value. central banks all around the world have a monopoly on their respective countries to print money and rent/sell it for a much higher price than what it cost.

now imagine each bill you use as plain a4 paper cutted in that size, and what you get in return... that's the percentage of fraud of the central banks. imagine using actual paper, the one you use to write or print, as money. no need for central banks, but then you may become depressed by how much and for how long you worked for something that has no inherent value at all.

how the f_ do people keep this worldwide fraud?! ...this lie, this criminal act of "money issuance".

"people can do whatever their society let them get away with"
"authorities extend their power as far as their pawns let them"

The central bank is supposed to print exactly the amount of money the real economy grows. And ideally the creation of money costs nothing. If those rules are followed, the system is in balance and works better than any other. If the economy shrinks the central bank must remove the appropriate money from circulation.

[Micki]

A currency named after a weight of silver? they have strange ways these easterners. How many Bahts would I get for my pound?

Good point. Not that I think it was the point you were trying to make but UK Pound is from the weight in Sterling Silver.

[Quinny]

My family (poor working class from low wage area) actually did better in times when there was wage restraint and high inflation. The imposed wage restraint was actually higher than a 'normal' raise, and because inflationary costs were factored in for things we couldn't afford anyway we felt much better off!

[bodigami]

Most paper money regimes are frauds to turn over real goods and services for something doesn't have value.

One of the better money systems that ever existed was the Japanese Ryo 両 that came before the Yen. One Ryo was equal to one bushel of rice. Ryo and rice were completely interchangeable to each other so any rice farmer could print as much Ryo as they wanted by simply planting more rice and turning the bushels of rice over to the rice grainery. Those who were paid in paper Ryo could turn the slips of paper over to the grainery and get bushels of rice. Taxes were collected in the form of Ryo and paid over to government officials in the form of stipends. There was no interest and the total number of Ryo in circulation never exceeded the Rice in the graineries. This system worked very well for them from around 1500 to mid 1800s when Westerners convinced them to go to the gold standard which allowed interest banking. It all went to hell from there.

I can see the Japanese going back to the Ryo at some point after they power down. Maybe us in the West could learn something from sustainable money as well.

that's an interesting example. you cann't eat money or gold, but japanese for centuries were able to change money for their base food. food as money seems to be the future.