[Prince]

Now we're giving $4500 to people who bought Hummers and F350s. Perhaps this has been discussed here before, but this is the first I've heard of it.

The one-year plan crafted by members of the U.S. House of Representatives would offer vouchers worth up to $4,500 for owners to replace their less fuel efficient vehicles for models that get better gas mileage.

Obama, lawmakers agree on "cash-for-clunkers" bill

[emersonbiggins]

This is a great way to clear out America's junkyards! I think I am going to pick up that $300 Ford F-150 clunker I saw on my way in today - there's $4200 profit in it for me. Can I tow it in to the stealership, or does it have to be driveable?

[vision-master]

Rich ppl drive Hummers.

Poor ppl drive ol chevy's.

[Jotapay]

SON OF A BITCH. What if I sold a Toyota Tundra truck in 2007 and bought a Toyota Matrix? I need a wall with very sharp spikes to bang my head on for a while. It just doesn't pay to do smart things on your own.

[Ludi]

I don't think it makes much sense. There's a lot of embodied energy in an old car and in the manufacture of a new one. Is it actually more energy efficient to scrap a "clunker" which gets good gas mileage to get a new car with the same gas mileage? Just going by the age of the vehicle is stupid - many old cars get good mileage compared to new cars.

It's just a way to get people to buy new cars instead of maintaining their old but perfectly useful vehicles.

<<<< in a household with old vehicles.

[Ludi]

'The goal of the "cash for clunkers" legislation is to sell 1 million vehicles.

"By stimulating consumer demand for new vehicles, this proposal will directly benefit domestic autoworkers and automotive manufacturers, which have arguably been hardest hit by the current economic downturn," said Rep. John Dingell, a Michigan Democrat and staunch industry ally.'

See, there, the goal is not to get a more fuel efficient fleet, but to sell new cars.

[Jotapay]

I don't think it makes much sense. There's a lot of embodied energy in an old car and in the manufacture of a new one.

Yep, exactly. Just drive less.

[Tyler_JC]

I can sell my old car to the government for $4500? Sweet!

We are essentially creating a price floor for old cars and enriching used car salesmen. I can't find a legitimate reason to go ahead with this plan.

Even the "better fuel economy" argument is dumb because it ignores the fact that people with brand new cars are going to drive a lot more now that they don't have to worry about the risk of breaking down.

This bill amounts to one more giant transfer of wealth from taxpayers to assorted special interest groups. When will they learn?

[erl]

If they offer me cash for my clunker, I may consider it.

If they offer me a voucher for payment towards a new car, I am not interested.

I am not interested in picking up any more monthly payments.

Sorry, no go.

[Tyler_JC]

You could buy an inexpensive new car.

A Chevy Aveo (made in Korea ) would cost only $12,000.

The voucher would cover more than a third of the cost of the vehicle.

[spiritof1976]

They've recently introduced the same thing here in the UK. You get £2000 if you scrap a car that's over 10 years old and buy a new one, so long as you can document that you've owned the car for at least a year (that rule, presumably, so people don't all rush down to the scrapyard and get a £100 banger).

Personally I have a ten year old Peugeot 106, so I could apply for this, but I'm not going to. For the following reasons.

- My Peugeot 106 may not be bling, it's not P.I.M.P. and it's definitely not sexy, but for the time being it's running okay, so why should it be scrapped?

- It also does pretty well on fuel efficiency

- Even if I bought a very fuel-efficient car, it would take several years of driving to compensate for the carbon footprint of having built the new car in the first place rather than just keep the old one running.

- Suppose I went ahead and scrapped the Peugeot and got myself a spanking new, uber-fuel-efficient car...let's say, a Citroen C1. The C1 costs, £8000, so I've still got to come up with the other £6000 - in the middle of a credit crunch as well! The repayments on that £6000 could pay to repair a lot of blown head gaskets on the Peugeot.

- If I buy a new car, it'll depreciate in its first year by more than the £2000 scrappage allowance. So it would make more financial sense to just sell the Peugeot and buy a nearly-new car instead.

- And finally, I can't afford to buy a new car! There's a REASON that I drive a ten year old car! It's because I'm fucking POOR!


So yes, the cash-for-clunkers scheme is just wrong on so many levels. Just government welfare for the car industry.

[vision-master]

You could buy an inexpensive new car.

A Chevy Aveo (made in Korea ) would cost only $12,000.

The voucher would cover more than a third of the cost of the vehicle.

Over my budget.

How about $1,200.

[Ludi]

Letter my husband wrote to the prez:

"Dear President Obama,

I’m writing today regarding the “Cash for Clunkers” program you recently expressed support for. While superficially this may seem like an environmentally friendly program, the reality is more complicated.

If done properly, when a car is turned in, the voucher received must be for a vehicle with better fuel economy than its predecessor. This in itself may cause problems, as fleet milage has degraded in the last couple decades, so the older cars, in general are lighter and more fuel efficient than the newer, heavier ones. For instance, the 1993 Geo Metro XFI got city / highway mpg estimates of 53/48, the Toyota Yaris’ fuel economy numbers are 34/40. What could the owner of an old Geo trade in for? A Prius at 48/45? Will the Metro be exempt from any cash for clunkers program until a more economical vehicle comes along?

Not only will the new car have to get better milage than the old car, it will have to mitigate the tons of CO2 emissions embedded in the vehicle during its manufacture. The amount of CO2 released during a car’s manufacture may be as high as 30% of the carbon dioxide released in the life of the vehicle. This is yet another environmental hurdle to be overcome by the new vehicle.

I do understand that the Cash for clunkers programs are intended as a stimulus for the auto industry , not as an environmental program, although it has been marketed as green. I propose instead of subsidizing the top of the industry, which has shown itself to be a failing model , stimulate the auto industry from the bottom up, the ‘regular guys’ you so often mention in your speeches. Instead of replacing a perfectly serviceable fleet with a newer, and in many ways less efficient one, encourage entrepreneurs to maintain and improve the efficiency and safety of older vehicles. Look to Neil Young’s 1959 Lincoln Continental. The plug-in diesel electric hybrid gets 100mpg where previously it got 10, thanks to a small shop in Wichita Kansas.

Business cycles come and go, industries come and go, civilizations come an go, as ours surely will, but this is the only Earth we have. Although it may run counter to the big business model, I ask you to, in this case, think small, and keep in mind this model:

Reduce
Re-use
Recycle"

[Roy]

Awesome letter from your husband Ludi!

Would that the leaderships in DC would listen to reason like that.

Call me cynical, but it will be a cold day in hell before they do ANYTHING that helps the little guy.

It's top down intervention. The only thing happening from the bottom-up is wealth transfer unfortunately.

I have no faith in the government doing anything to mitigate what we are now experiencing and what we will surely experience going forward.

[AlexdeLarge]

"Dear President Obama"

Do let us all know when he gets back to you on that !

Have you tried prayer ? Be sure to first prostrate yourself and bow towards D.C .

Let me help you......................

Lord Obama, Barry be thy name.....
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as well as T.V. Though I be not worthy of thoust noble gaze, I do humbly ask you to hear my prayers. Forgive me my sin of being born white and that I liveth in Texas. I am your servant plying the noble guild of Geppetto. I knoweth tho art busy smoteing the evil doers.......Repooblicans, CIA operatives, Rich people and other minions of Dubya. But please hear my prayers and saveth us. For we, your fawning peasants, can not possibly help ourselves and needth the guidance of goooberment bureacrates and thou disciples; BIden, Pelosi. Dodd, Frank, Turbo Timmy and Emanuel. In return we promise you 42% of our income and half of what we own at our death for thou to redistribute to those more worthy in your divine eyes.

Amen

If that doesn't work...try clicking your heels together and saying three times........ "I do, I do, I do believe !"


P.S. Maybe you can try another faith and God if "The One" does not deliver. The Christians only ask for 10% !!

[smallpoxgirl]

Does anyone else feel like America is starting to resemble Let's Make a Deal?

"I'll give you $4500 for your old car and $300 for the purple scarf."
"Sweet!"

I swear to god, Pelosi and Obama think they're cohosting a game show.

[wisconsin_cur]

Of course how much is the idea of this keeping people from buying a car or keeping their "clunker." Today the dealer will only give me 500 - 1000 dollars. If I wait a while, maybe I can get $4500?

[Ludi]

Do let us all know when he gets back to you on that !

Have you tried prayer ? Be sure to first prostrate yourself and bow towards D.C .

My husband hopes to get an 8 x 10 glossy suitable for framing, like he got from Dubya.

[karenc]

Most vehicles that are currently donated to charity will now be eligible for a voucher of $3500 to $4500. This amount far exceeds the tax deduction of $500 or what the car sells for, whichever is greater. As a result, the "cash for clunkers" legislation will end charity car donation. A much simpler approach would be to change the tax deduction back to the blue book value. This approach would stimulate car sales and provide some much needed money to charities that are stretched very thin in this down economy.

[Schmuto]

you presume that every car given to charity was given because the owner was buying a new car.