[AlexdeLarge]

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressReleasesMolt/idUSTRE5464DP20090507

President Barack Obama proposed on Thursday nearly doubling funds to enforce U.S. tax laws next year, with an aim of more than quadrupling funding for tax compliance to $2.1 billion within five years.

Well, if you are going raise taxes, you got to collect em !! So bend over America. You wanted change and you are going to get it straight up your arse!! LOL

But remember, this is more about power and intimidation as well paying the interest on our huge national debt.

The strong arm is so China will be paid back. The intimidation is to threaten opponents of "The One".

You will see a huge exodus from America in the next year as those who can leave. The rest of us will be poor and serfs on the collective........................................

[Novus]

Just remember. You can't tax the unemployed.

[AlexdeLarge]

Just remember. You can't tax the unemployed.

Au contraire, mon amie ! How bout a little back audit of what you made in the past? What little equity in your home can be confiscated to "redistribute' to those deemed more worthy of your assets.

Plus don't forget higher sale taxes or Cap N Trade so you pay more keeping warm or turning on the lights in the dark. How bout use taxes for keeping your trailer and boat, your car....................

You will pay dear boy. We will all pay dearly......................

[mefistofeles]

What's the point? These deficits are out of control with or without tax compliance. Obama is crazy, he wants to save 17 billion by cutting defense spending but is willing to spend over a trillion on his "stimlus" and bank bailouts?

His behaviour in this case really borders on irrational. Big deal we have full tax compliance, what then? One point eight trillion dollar deficits instead of two trillion dollar deficits? At this point it won't make a difference.

I think he's indulging in the illusion of control.

Also even if he does succeed in "cracking down" on tax cheats? They'll simply move all their money out of the US! He'll also cut off a huge source of funding for the US, alot of people buy US bonds through intermediaries in the caymans and other offshore tax havens. When Uncle Sam taketh who in their right mind is going to move money into the states? He will be cutting his own face to spite his ears.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Obama is crazy, he wants to save 17 billion by cutting defense spending but is willing to spend over a trillion on his "stimlus" and bank bailouts?

Yeah, for every $3.5+ trillion Obama spends, he is able to extract up to $17 billion in savings. Very impressive.

[gnm]

Obama is crazy, he wants to save 17 billion by cutting defense spending but is willing to spend over a trillion on his "stimlus" and bank bailouts?

Yeah, for every $3.5+ trillion Obama spends, he is able to extract up to $17 billion in savings. Very impressive.

Indeed, by their own admission we are looking at running roughly a 1.7 TRILLION dollar deficit and they are harping about 17 Billion in savings? What a friggin joke. Thats like spending 100% over a balanced budget and then harping about cutting back 1/1000th of spending. And they are arguing thats too much?! AND then he has the audacity to claim that we can't "leave this for the next administration, next generation etc, tough spending cuts now yadda yadda" (paraphrased) UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE!!

We are so fscking doomed....

-G

[Tyler_JC]

There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government.
-Ben Franklin

Cheating on your taxes is theft. It forces the honest among us to pay a much heavier burden.

More IRS audits? Bring it on.

At least this kind of spending actually creates a return on investment.

[smallpoxgirl]

More IRS audits? Bring it on.

At least this kind of spending actually creates a return on investment.

Screw that! The IRS is an utterly useless organization. Audits and audit fear rob an amazing amount of productive capacity from society. All of these people sit around at HR Block working late into the night doing NOTHING useful for society. It's all the same game. Create a system of laws so complex no one could possibly comply with all of them. Hire legions of enforcers. If you play it right, in the end, everyone thinks they're a criminal, and they all live in constant fear of getting caught. Everyone will do whatever fool thing you tell them because they're all afraid of getting caught by the government. If the goal was to actually collect taxes in a fair way, the internal revenue code would be reduced down to one paragraph, tax returns would be the size of a postcard, and it would be a trivial issue to figure out who is and isn't cheating. They make it so complex specifically so no one will ever be quite sure if they're in compliance and everyone will live in fear and shame.

[Armageddon]

More IRS audits? Bring it on.

At least this kind of spending actually creates a return on investment.

Screw that! The IRS is an utterly useless organization. Audits and audit fear rob an amazing amount of productive capacity from society. All of these people sit around at HR Block working late into the night doing NOTHING useful for society. It's all the same game. Create a system of laws so complex no one could possibly comply with all of them. Hire legions of enforcers. If you play it right, in the end, everyone thinks they're a criminal, and they all live in constant fear of getting caught. Everyone will do whatever fool thing you tell them because they're all afraid of getting caught by the government. If the goal was to actually collect taxes in a fair way, the internal revenue code would be reduced down to one paragraph, tax returns would be the size of a postcard, and it would be a trivial issue to figure out who is and isn't cheating. They make it so complex specifically so no one will ever be quite sure if they're in compliance and everyone will live in fear and shame.

You nailed it.

[JJ]

my co-worker at the grocery store I work at has a kid in Afghanistan. He makes whatever minimun wage is sweeping the floor (we have CEO's applying for sacking positions). The IRS has decided he owes 3000. dollars from six years ago (which he say's they told him he doesn't owe). Every day they send him a mountain of paperwork (which he shows me). They say he now owes them 16,000. in penalties, in addition to the 3000. They have set up a payment program; repleat with threats that if he misses a payment, jail. The payment program is 150.00 a month AND 105. PROCESSING FEE every month. What rape. 250.00 a month on minimum wage. (He's my age, 50.) He's also, in my estimation and my other co-workers estimation, pretty close to going postal on a government employee.

edited for spelling

[mefistofeles]

There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government.
-Ben Franklin

I hate to tell this J.C. but the defrauders are running the show with their crazy bailouts and stimulus packages. Goldman Sachs and Pimco seem to be running the government and making lots of money at the same time!

Cheating on your taxes is theft. It forces the honest among us to pay a much heavier burden.

That sounds nice but unfortunately the guy who is in charge of the IRS (Secretary of Treasury Geithner) managed to avoid five years of interest and penalties on his back taxes. Having actually spent a good chunk of change paying off back taxes ,interest and penalties I sure wish I could have gotten that deal!

If the people in government expect the people to pay their taxes perhaps they should set a better example.

[smallpoxgirl]

my co-worker at the grocery store I work at has a kid in Afghanistan. He makes whatever minimun wage is sweeping the floor (we have CEO's applying for sacking positions). The IRS has decided he owes 3000. dollars from six years ago (which he say's they told him he doesn't owe). Every day they send him a mountain of paperwork (which he shows me). They say he now owes them 16,000. in penalties, in addition to the 3000. They have set up a payment program; repleat with threats that if he misses a payment, jail. The payment program is 150.00 a month AND 105. PROCESSING FEE every month. What rape. 250.00 a month on minimum wage. (He's my age, 50.) He's also, in my estimation and my other co-workers estimation, pretty close to going postal on a government employee.

Sounds like he needs some legal help. If he can't afford a lawyer, he should make a trip to the library at least. There's no debtors prison. IRS can't jail you for being unable to pay your tax bill. They can only jail you for things like tax evasion (i.e. willfully concealing income or something.) It's VERY rare that IRS prosecutes someone. Much more common is stuff like garnishing wages, or placing liens on property. If your friend doesn't have assets, bankruptcy would be an option. Another option would be to just let them garnish his wages. There's limits to how much they can take out of each paycheck and it might well be less than $250/mo. There's a ten year statute of limitations. You'd have to look up the specifics, but as I recall it starts ticking the day the return is due. After the time limit expires, IRS has to stop trying to collect the tax. Might be worth letting them garnish and waiting for the time limit. If he has a house or other significant assets, then there's not much choice but to suck it up and pay them off.

[AlexdeLarge]

More IRS audits? Bring it on.

At least this kind of spending actually creates a return on investment.

Screw that! The IRS is an utterly useless organization. Audits and audit fear rob an amazing amount of productive capacity from society. All of these people sit around at HR Block working late into the night doing NOTHING useful for society. It's all the same game. Create a system of laws so complex no one could possibly comply with all of them. Hire legions of enforcers. If you play it right, in the end, everyone thinks they're a criminal, and they all live in constant fear of getting caught. Everyone will do whatever fool thing you tell them because they're all afraid of getting caught by the government. If the goal was to actually collect taxes in a fair way, the internal revenue code would be reduced down to one paragraph, tax returns would be the size of a postcard, and it would be a trivial issue to figure out who is and isn't cheating. They make it so complex specifically so no one will ever be quite sure if they're in compliance and everyone will live in fear and shame.

+1

That is the intent of the administration. The IRS is the agency to use to promote fear and to destroy the opposition. Revenue collection is just a plus. And there is no political power that can stop him. The goal is not the welfare of the citizens..........it is about power and one party dominance of our "former" republic. I admit I am impressed by the Machiavellian mechanics of it all. (Read Rules for Radicals to know the playbook)

Curious..............is this the "change" all you Obamatons wished for when you pulled the lever for this bigot?????
.

[JJ]

my co-worker at the grocery store I work at has a kid in Afghanistan. He makes whatever minimun wage is sweeping the floor (we have CEO's applying for sacking positions). The IRS has decided he owes 3000. dollars from six years ago (which he say's they told him he doesn't owe). Every day they send him a mountain of paperwork (which he shows me). They say he now owes them 16,000. in penalties, in addition to the 3000. They have set up a payment program; repleat with threats that if he misses a payment, jail. The payment program is 150.00 a month AND 105. PROCESSING FEE every month. What rape. 250.00 a month on minimum wage. (He's my age, 50.) He's also, in my estimation and my other co-workers estimation, pretty close to going postal on a government employee.

Sounds like he needs some legal help. If he can't afford a lawyer, he should make a trip to the library at least. There's no debtors prison. IRS can't jail you for being unable to pay your tax bill. They can only jail you for things like tax evasion (i.e. willfully concealing income or something.) It's VERY rare that IRS prosecutes someone. Much more common is stuff like garnishing wages, or placing liens on property. If your friend doesn't have assets, bankruptcy would be an option. Another option would be to just let them garnish his wages. There's limits to how much they can take out of each paycheck and it might well be less than $250/mo. There's a ten year statute of limitations. You'd have to look up the specifics, but as I recall it starts ticking the day the return is due. After the time limit expires, IRS has to stop trying to collect the tax. Might be worth letting them garnish and waiting for the time limit. If he has a house or other significant assets, then there's not much choice but to suck it up and pay them off.

I took the liberty of printing what you just wrote, and will give it to him tomorrow. (I didn't know any of that). Thanks. PS he has no assets except a cat.

[smallpoxgirl]

I took the liberty of printing what you just wrote, and will give it to him tomorrow. (I didn't know any of that). Thanks. PS he has no assets except a cat.

Yeah. So a chapter 7 bankruptcy would be one quick way to get rid of them. If he really has that few assets he could probably file the forms himself. If you're really poor, there's even a program where the courts may wave the filing fee. There are certain time limits about what's dischargable WRT taxes which he would need to look into. Apparently the limits of how much the IRS can garnish are kinda complicated. Internet sources are conflicting, but it looks like IRS is not bound by the normal federal garnishment laws. Another little tidbit to investigate is federal tax liens. They do not go away in a bankruptcy. I don't know how they're affected by the time limit provisions. If he's thinking about doing a bankruptcy, it's probably worthwhile to keep paying the IRS until he files so that they don't file a tax lien. If the taxes are of the right vintage for discharge and the IRS hasn't filed a lien then a bankruptcy should make them go away.

[smallpoxgirl]

More on discharging tax debts here: link

More on the 10 year limit here: link

Yet another option is an "offer in comprimise" where you basically say to the IRS, "Look. Sorry I owe you money, but let's be honest. We both know I can't pay this off before the 10 year collection limit. Here's what I can pay. OK?" It goes with this rather unwieldy form which calculates your assets, expenses, and income: link

[Ludi]

People need to remember that just because the IRS is nominally in a position of authority (actually not - they are our employees) doesn't mean they are not in error when they show up and say "give us your money." But most folks are scared and just cave, or don't have the resources to fight back.

[smallpoxgirl]

People need to remember that just because the IRS is nominally in a position of authority (actually not - they are our employees) doesn't mean they are not in error when they show up and say "give us your money." But most folks are scared and just cave, or don't have the resources to fight back.

For sure! The rules are so complex, there are a fair number of situations where it's not even clear what you owe without fighting it out in court. Even the people who do this stuff for a living don't know all the rules or even most of them. I have an accountant that I go to when I get stuck on a difficult issue. She'll pull out a bunch of books and print off reading material for me. The answer usually looks something like "Well...if you're situation looks like this then the answer is probably A. However if your situation likes more like this then the answer is probably B." Only they spend 20 pages describing all the nuanced differences. It's just crazy. How we normal shmucks are supposed to understand this and keep up with it all is just baffling to me.

[odegaard]

...Well, if you are going raise taxes, you got to collect em !! So bend over America. You wanted change and you are going to get it straight up your arse!! LOL

"In a Democracy, The People Get the Government They Deserve"

You will see a huge exodus from America in the next year as those who can leave. The rest of us will be poor and serfs on the collective........................................

It's already happening.
source
"Fact: The top-earning 1% of US taxpayers are Leaving the USA at the highest rate in history."

[Ludi]

You will see a huge exodus from America in the next year as those who can leave. The rest of us will be poor and serfs on the collective........................................

It's already happening.
source
"Fact: The top-earning 1% of US taxpayers are Leaving the USA at the highest rate in history."

What a bunch of whining babies, who can't take a 3% increase on the amount they earn over $250,000.