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The little satellite that could!

The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 30 May 2009, 08:09:40

Strangely enough we are seeing a childhood fable revisited, only this time instead of the little engine that could, its Al Gores earth sensing satellite that could, finally be launched and used that is.

LINK

NASA, NOAA and the U.S. Air Force completed a comprehensive study last month to determine the feasibility of finally launching the refrigerator-sized satellite, which has been confined to a lonely corner of a Maryland warehouse for seven years.

The agencies are discussing adapting the DSCOVR spacecraft for a new mission to monitor solar wind and space weather from the L1 libration point, a site 1 million miles away where the pull of gravity from the sun and Earth is equal.

Although engineers say the spacecraft is healthy after its lengthy storage, DSCOVR's new plans will probably depend on NOAA's budget over the next few years.

NOAA and the Air Force have already paid NASA to remove DSCOVR from its white storage crate and begin testing at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

The testing began in November with the power-up of DSCOVR and a set of space environment sensors known as PlasMag. DSCOVR's Earth science instruments were not turned on.

The checks are helping officials estimate the cost of revamping the satellite for a new mission and launching it on an expendable rocket.

A NASA study from 2007 concluded that DSCOVR could be refurbished, tested and launched aboard a Delta 2 rocket for about $205 million. But that estimate was based on an Earth observation mission using instruments already built.

Launch would probably occur in about 2013, officials said.

But NOAA officials must first finish examining NASA's report and decide whether to pursue the mission.

"If the numbers seem to make sense to us, and the powers-that-be think it's worthwhile, we could potentially ask for funding to do this," Davis said.


Can anyone explain to me why a sat that has been in clean storage for 7 years, passed its tests with flying colors and so on needs more than 4 years of preparation to launch? I know that NASA is no paragon of speedy action but this is beyond slow to geologically slow progress. In the 1960's they would have been able to launch in a few weeks once the sat was ready to go, now it takes 5 YEARS???
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 31 May 2009, 02:29:32

Our economy is not about actual doing things.

It is more about advertising, insuring, financing, approving, managing, certifying, marketing, advising, etc.

There is one exception though.
You can carry on polluting your environment as fast, as you wish.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 31 May 2009, 08:39:22

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Our economy is not about actual doing things.

It is more about advertising, insuring, financing, approving, managing, certifying, marketing, advising, etc.

There is one exception though.
You can carry on polluting your environment as fast, as you wish.


It really is a sad statement, I have been waiting for the data this satellite could provide for a decade, since they started building and promoting it. Now it sounds as if another 5 years will pass before any data is available.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 31 May 2009, 11:44:46

In the 60s a satalite would have been a very simple with a couple of analogue instruments and a radio. Its life expectancy in space would have been a couple of working months and no real concern for the amount of debris it created in launch and death.

Todays satalites are very complex instraments making extrorinary measurements have powerful and complex on board software and require huge amounts of bandwidth to return the information back to earth. They are also expected to remain operational for years and even over a decade in cases. Upon completion of its mission the satalite is expected to be in sufficient working order to be either re-entered or placed in a safe parking orbit where it will not jepordise future missions.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sun 31 May 2009, 11:56:14

So what exactly is this satellite supposed to do? Scope the globe for the best place for Al to build a vacation home?
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Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 31 May 2009, 12:02:42

Deep Space Climate Observatory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The satellite's original purpose was to provide a near-continuous view of the entire Earth and make that live image available via the Internet. Gore hoped not only to advance science with these images, but also to raise awareness of the Earth itself, updating the influential The Blue Marble photograph taken by Apollo 17.


Image

In addition to an imaging camera, a radiometer would take the first direct measurements of how much sunlight is reflected and emitted from the whole Earth. This data could constitute a barometer for the process of global warming. The scientific goals expanded to measure the amount of solar energy reaching Earth, cloud patterns, weather systems, monitor the health of Earth's vegetation, and track the amount of UV light reaching the surface through the ozone layer.

Derided by critics as being an unfocused project, the satellite was nicknamed GoreSat, and was often referred to as an "overpriced screen saver" by Republicans. Congress asked the National Academy of Sciences whether the project was worthwhile. The resulting report stated that the mission was "strong and vital."[1] NASA's Inspector General reported that "the basic concept of the Triana mission was not peer reviewed", and "Triana's added science may not represent the best expenditure of NASA's limited science funding."[2]
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 31 May 2009, 20:33:19

smallpoxgirl wrote:So what exactly is this satellite supposed to do? Scope the globe for the best place for Al to build a vacation home?


What TheDude said, basically it is a sat designed to study the sunlit face of the Earth 24/7, which would allow it to do all sorts of studies both for climate and for crop/forrestry/land use, all that geographical type of study we like to do. Now they are discussing if they should launch it just because of the solar wind instruments possibly scrapping and removing the other sensors or possibly just keeping them shut off to save power and bandwidth.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:40:37

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/dsc ... tVLz_tuTG0
The development of NOAA's upcoming Deep Space Climate Observatory known as DSCOVR, a satellite designed to monitor and warn of harmful solar activity that could impact Earth, last week cleared a major review and is on track to launch by early fiscal 2015.

The Key Decision Point C Review was conducted by the joint NASA-NOAA Program Management Council reviewed the complete budget and development plans for DSCOVR through launch to its end of life. Passing the review allows the NASA DSCOVR project at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. to proceed with the implementation phase and continue the development of the spacecraft and its ground segment.

DSCOVR will orbit at the L1 libration point -- where the sun’s and Earth’s gravitational pull cancels – approximately one million miles away from Earth towards the sun. At that location, the satellite will measure solar storms before they reach the planet.

The DSCOVR mission is a partnership between NOAA, NASA and the U.S. Air Force.

NOAA will operate the DSCOVR mission, giving advanced warning of approaching solar storms with the potential to cripple electrical grids, communications, GPS navigation, air travel, satellite operations and human spaceflight. Experts estimate damages from these types of severe solar storms could range between $1- $2 trillion.

NASA, using NOAA funds, refurbished the DSCOVR satellite and instruments, which had been in storage for several years. NASA is also developing the ground system to be used to operate the DSCOVR satellite. The U.S. Air Force is providing the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch vehicle for DSCOVR mission.

After four more long years of Talk talk talk the satellite that was ready for launch is now just two years away from getting put into space.

Why does every project take so long and cost so much extra in things like clean room storage charges?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Surf » Wed 15 Jan 2014, 00:47:31

Can anyone explain to me why a sat that has been in clean storage for 7 years, passed its tests with flying colors and so on needs more than 4 years of preparation to launch? I know that NASA is no paragon of speedy action but this is beyond slow to geologically slow progress. In the 1960's they would have been able to launch in a few weeks once the sat was ready to go, now it takes 5 YEARS???


The original launch apparently was canceled due to politics

It has never become entirely clear why the satellite had ended up here. In his 2009 book Our Choice, Gore wrote, "The Bush Cheney administration canceled the launch within days of taking office on January 20, 2001, and forced NASA to put the satellite into storage." Warren Wiscombe, a senior physical scientist at NASA, blames a Bush-era "hostility" to earth science at NASA. "As to who ordered the axing of the mission," he says, "we'll never know, but the word we got was that Dick Cheney was behind it."



The agencies are discussing adapting the DSCOVR spacecraft for a new mission to monitor solar wind and space weather from the L1 libration point, a site 1 million miles away where the pull of gravity from the sun and Earth is equal.


Right now all they are doing is retesting the satellite to verify it is still OK. a final decision on what to do is still pending.

What they are thinking of doing is taking off the original scientific instruments and putting different ones on. That involves adapting the spacecraft systems to handle the new instrument and possibly changing power systems and software. And after all that is done retest. And while all that is going on put a new rocket on order.

Of course they may decide to just launch it as is as soon as a rocket is available. Right now all they are doing is retesting the satellite to verify it is still OK. a final decision on what to do is still pending.

Source:
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-03/lost-satellite?page=0%2C0
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 20 Jan 2014, 09:22:02

That is kind of my point, first politics get involved then the inertia of just sitting still not really accomplishing anything takes over. The entire USA space program has been experiencing this same pattern for decades, the Apollo hardware for the last three moon missions sat in clean storage for years, then suddenly the last two rockets were put out as public displays in Houston, TX and Cape Canaveral, FL; which wasted billions of dollars in construction and maintenance of those rockets. The entire Skylab 2 Station did the same routine of sitting in storage for a long time and never getting launched. Three or four complete sets of Apollo Skylab capable rockets and ships never got used for anything worthwhile, they sat in storage for years and are now distributed around as museum pieces. For the Space Shuttle spare parts, extra frames, extra fuel tanks, things that never got used up sat around for years and are now museum pieces or quietly decaying scrap. The Enterprise, Discovery, Endeavor and Atlantis have all been stuck in museums for people to look at well before their useful lives were over. The International Space Station had several modules never completed because the mission changed over and over and over during its construction, now after all the delays it is so spread out in age that while some sections are worn out others are still fairly new.

You can make a list the same way for unmanned hardware, their was a spare main mirror for the Hubble Space Telescope kept in a clean room for almost two decades, the Galileo, Magellan, and several other long duration probes sat for many years in storage as priorities shifted, then got launched when priorities shifted back. Goresat as some people call it is just one more in the long list of wasted efforts, these things are not cheap to build or launch, but once you build it holding it on the ground eats up huge budgets for storage and maintenance.

In the 1960's NASA had a goal and everything was oriented that direction, but when the politics changed in 1969 three moon landings were cancelled and when priorities shifted further in 1971 the second Skylab station and the other Skylab manned missions faded out of importance. Apollo-Soyuz was just a political stunt with very little scientific value, if the mission had been properly planned the Astronauts and Cosmonauts could have rendezvoused on the Skylab 1 station and used the equipment already in orbit to do something useful, instead they met in a widely divergent orbit to prevent the USSR from ever visiting the station. That is like throwing a party and telling the guests to use the bushes instead of coming inside to use the rest room.

JFK had a Visionary goal, his death made that goal into a political stunt that lead nowhere. From 1965-1983 the Presidents all dithered around unable to decide on a solid goal until RWR decided a Space Station was the needed step. Unfortunately he left office long before NASA got even the first piece launched and every President since has just dithered around the edges adding an idea here, taking away a different idea there. There is no national goal, there is no timeline of achievements needed to a progress to the ultimate goal. We just sit around talking and spinning our wheels without making any darn useful thing happen, anything we do achieve is from some side project the politicians didn't pay much attention too like the Mars rovers or the Cassini mission to Saturn.

Dealing with energy depletion in the USA is the same way, politicians come and go announcing Their Plan, but they never put together reasonable budgets or timelines to make Their Plan actually work. We could have fuel efficient personal transport gradually introduced over 40 years, instead we are barely above where we were in 1985. We could have 50% of our electric grid nuclear and the other 50% renewables but instead 34 years later we are at just about the same fossil fuel/nuclear/renewable percentages we were in 1980. The individual components have changed in those wedges of the total, we have more natural gas and less coal as over all percentages and we have more wind and less hydro as over all percentages, but as total wedges not much has changed.

TPTB hate actual change and do everything they can to continue the BAU that put them in charge and keeps them in control in place.

/End Rant
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Al Gore = Eco-Hero

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 07:14:30

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015 ... /23013283/

At long last: Al Gore's satellite dream blasts off
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:54:09

A quote from the link above.
"I always thought that one way or another, it was going to get up there," said Gore, who plans to be present at Cape Canaveral for the liftoff. "It would've been better years ago, but that's ancient history."

Most space missions are born of scientific curiosity, but DSCOVR sprang from a bout of insomnia in early 1998. Unable to sleep, Gore said he was struck with an audacious idea: launch a satellite that would beam back to Earth a continuous live image of the planet hanging in the blackness of space.

“I always thought that one way or another, it was going to get up there. It would've been better years ago, but that's ancient history.”
Al Gore, who came up with the idea

"You know, it took 17 years! Seventeen years to get something done that was supposed to be done in a couple of years," said Francisco Valero, an emeritus research scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and the mission's lead scientist until his team was disbanded. "Now it's happening. … Isn't that great?"

In short order after his idea, Gore announced his plan for a satellite called Triana, after a sailor in Columbus's fleet. NASA moved to beef up the mission's scientific credentials, but it was too late. Triana became a Republican football of a satellite.

"Unfortunately, we could never shake off that political perception of the mission, that this is all about politics," said Ghassem Asrar, a NASA official at the time and now director of the Joint Global Change Research Institute in College Park, Md.

The mission was nothing but a "multimillion-dollar screensaver," Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., scoffed in 1999. After George W. Bush moved into the White House, the vending machine-sized spacecraft was parked under a stairwell at a NASA facility in Maryland, awaiting a launch date that never seemed to arrive.

Part of Triana's troubles stemmed from mundane logistical realities. The satellite was designed to rocket into orbit on the space shuttle, which was overbooked in the 2000s. But Asrar points out that if the mission hadn't been so politically tainted, it might have had a better chance of winning a shuttle slot.


More at the link. It had to be very pricey to keep this think in clean room storage for 17 years. Isn't politics wonderful?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The little satellite that could!

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:01:44

Wow! Thanks for putting this in its historical context here. I had no idea that you had this long connection to it. Fun to see the old avatars of smallpoxgirl and TheDude, too!
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