[spot5050]

In the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless. It won't stop us using all the hydrocarbons - merely slow us down a little. Eventually we'll use all the fossil fuels we can get our hands on.

You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.

You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.

[Ludi]

In the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless. It won't stop us using all the hydrocarbons - merely slow us down a little. Eventually we'll use all the fossil fuels we can get our hands on.

You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.

You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.

Pretty much agree. It's what's called Jevon's Paradox.

But you CAN save your own resources by using fewer expensive resources. You CAN reduce your need to earn by reducing your use of expensive resources.

Maybe you just love your job and leap from your bed in the morning just itching to go to work to earn more money so you can buy more expensive resources, but for me, I prefer sleeping in.

[mattduke]

Any oil the US saves will be burned by China instead.

[Schmuto]

Agree with OP, disagree that it's Jevon's paradox.

It's just human nature.

[Narz]

In the end we will use up all the coal, oil and gas, so switching lights off or buying energy-saving bulbs or installing solar panels is pointless.
...
You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.

Any oil the US saves will be burned by China instead.

Cool, lets just all shoot ourselves then.

Misery loves company but it doesn't stop me from wishing fatalists would keep their depression to themselves.

It matters very much whether our decline rate is 1 or 2% or 5 or 6%. Anyone who doesn't think so is quite simply stupid.

It's like being shipwrecked on a desert island with three month's supply of food - an island that may have hidden fruit trees & game but one that will take a long time to explore and one fatalist fuckwad crew members says "ah fuck it, we're screwed, lets just scarf this food ASAP cause in the end it doesn't matter". If I had a guy like that on my island I'd send him off into the sea on a raft with a canteen of water and a cyanide tablet so he could put his money (in the form of a suicide pill) where his mouth was. Actually the canteen could be useful, I'd have him take the tablet first & then send him off to sea. Actually no, his body could be useful to attract potential prey, I'd just give him the pill, in a situation like that there's no spare energy for unnecessary melodrama & ceremony.

Pretty much agree. It's what's called Jevon's Paradox.

Jevon's Paradox is garbage as has been explained as such dozens of times. In practical terms, it doesn't show itself in the modern marketplace. It is a feature of extremely abundant times & hasn't been seen in a 100 years & won't be seen again on a large scale.

It's just human nature.

No it isn't. Humans can live sustainably. Our dominant cultural paradigm is greed & growth at all costs (like a cancer cell) rather than encouraging traits like intelligent foresight. It's not "human nature". That's just a copout. Humanity is young, we're like a misguided toddler going thru a phase. If we survive this phase & grow to adulthood you can bet our cultural paradigm will be flipped on it's head.

[Ludi]

No it isn't. Humans can live sustainably. Our dominant cultural paradigm is greed & growth at all costs (like a cancer cell) rather than encouraging traits like intelligent foresight. It's not "human nature". That's just a copout. Humanity is young, we're like a misguided toddler going thru a phase. If we survive this phase & grow to adulthood you can bet our cultural paradigm will be flipped on it's head.

100% agree.

[VMarcHart]

Jevon's Paradox is garbage...

Poor Bill.

Humans can live sustainably. Humanity is young, we're like a misguided toddler going thru a phase. If we survive this phase & grow to adulthood you can bet our cultural paradigm will be flipped on it's head.

I thought we had already been through a few dozen phases. How many do we need to go through?

[Narz]

I thought we had already been through a few dozen phases. How many do we need to go through?

We're slow learners.

[zeke]

You can't "save energy" by walking instead of driving, or buying food with less packaging. The energy you don't use now will be used very shortly by someone else.

You can't save the planet by using oil more slowly because we won't stop consuming until all the oil is used up.

for one exciting moment there, I thought this was going to be an honest post about Conservation of Energy, but....it's more like the shell game ppl like to play when talking about fuel and resources.

the whole notion of walking, or riding a bike or using less ___ , etc, as ppl like to say "saving energy" is not about 3 north american yuppies single-handedly saving the world by using solar-powered iPods to listen to NPR.

it's about changing behaviors on a mass scale, which can reduce energy consumption.

problem is that very few people want to get off their pimply asses and DO it. Nobody wants to change the lifestyle they enjoy now. The few who do are villified, and quite often attacked physically.

"You can't save energy" is more appropriately tagged the "Last man standing" strategy in which the contesting parties attempt to out-slurp all the others in the hope that they alone will be left the last slurpings.

for a creature that brags on havin the biggest brain in the universe, this shows a level of intelligence that would embarrass a piece of cat shit.

Every time somebody takes a crap on the notion that we try to live on less, it is the equivalent to shilling for Exxon-Mobile.

You think those ghouls want ppl to use less? Or, much much more?

(Jeopardy music)

yeah.

z

[AAA]

for one exciting moment there, I thought this was going to be an honest post about Conservation of Energy, but....it's more like the shell game ppl like to play when talking about fuel and resources.

If you are looking for good energy information I would suggest going elsewhere. PO.com is falling apart quickly.

However I will say I am saving a lot of money by being more energy efficient. Using less natural gas, less electricity, and less gasoline is saving good money I can invest and prepare for the future.

So yes you can save energy and save money.

[VMarcHart]

The few who [conserve/save energy] are ... quite often attacked physically.

I've never heard of that.

[VMarcHart]

PO.com is falling apart quickly.

I noticed that around November 12, 2008, the quality of new members has considerably lowered.

[VMarcHart]

I have spent my life trying to save your sorry asses ... I failed saving your sorry asses.

Dang! Where were you when they were passing free humility? Busy saving my sorry ass? Man, now I feel doubly guilty for having a sorry ass and for ruining your life.

[zeke]

The few who [conserve/save energy] are ... quite often attacked physically.

I've never heard of that.

you may have heard of attacks on cyclists by drivers of motor vehicles.

despite the legal protection and rights cyclists have, motor vehicle drivers often view cyclists and pedestrians as impediments to their happy motoring jerkoff life, and as targets of "justifiable murder."

I actually had a job interview once in which the employer admitted the desire to be able to kill bike riders with his car, provided he could get away with it.

you get the significance of that statement?

for him, the only deterrent was that he couldn't get away with it. for him, the act of murdering bike riders was itself A-OK.


z

[AAA]

The few who [conserve/save energy] are ... quite often attacked physically.

I've never heard of that.

you may have heard of attacks on cyclists by drivers of motor vehicles.

despite the legal protection and rights cyclists have, motor vehicle drivers often view cyclists and pedestrians as impediments to their happy motoring jerkoff life, and as targets of "justifiable murder."

I actually had a job interview once in which the employer admitted the desire to be able to kill bike riders with his car, provided he could get away with it.

you get the significance of that statement?

for him, the only deterrent was that he couldn't get away with it. for him, the act of murdering bike riders was itself A-OK.


z

Do you have any links of ACTUAL attacks on people based purely on the fact that the victim was being conservative?

If it happens "quite often" then there must be thousands of links because there are millions of people who are conservative.

[efarmer]

General Doom, having surrendered his sword and bowed
to the conquerors, was amazed to find he was becoming
quite a little chatterbox and that many listeners, already
convinced they were beaten, were still dying to have him
tell them the how and why.

So I got into line, and I said "General Doom, I am lower
than whale poop and whooped like a yard dog, I admit
it, but now I want you to tell me why."

He pondered and then calmly announced:

"Because you have been following me, my boy."

[zeke]

Do you have any links of ACTUAL attacks on people based purely on the fact that the victim was being conservative?

If it happens "quite often" then there must be thousands of links because there are millions of people who are conservative.

IMHO, with that above question and statement, you have entered silly land.

which is good news for you cuz if you buy the giant 128-oz size silly slurpy, you get your drink cup for free!

choice of 6 fruity colors!

on the off chance that you're actually serious with that malarkey, do your own leg work and google up some links of bike/car accidents.

Mostly likely you will not see exact verbage that "the driver of the vehicle had bike hate pamphlets in his car and openly admitted hitting the bike rider for daring to conserve petroleum."

but use your brain! why do people ride bikes? for fun, exercise, sport, and for getting around, often because they don't want to use gasoline.

I have been cycling for well over 35 years. much of that time, it's been to and from work because I didn't want to drive, pay for gas, etc.

there are many people who do the same.

You can even go one better. YOU can busy your buns proving to us that motor vehicle drivers who hit bike riders don't dislike them.

there must be LOTS of links to support that idea.


z

[AAA]

Do you have any links of ACTUAL attacks on people based purely on the fact that the victim was being conservative?

If it happens "quite often" then there must be thousands of links because there are millions of people who are conservative.

IMHO, with that above question and statement, you have entered silly land.

which is good news for you cuz if you buy the giant 128-oz size silly slurpy, you get your drink cup for free!

choice of 6 fruity colors!


z

So do you have any links?

[zeke]

So do you have any links?

sure. here ya go:

www.turdflick.org


have a ball!

z