[frankthetank]

I'm in Wisconsin, so farming is big. Whenever our local congress people talk (like just now on the local news), they always bring up how the "small" farmers are struggling? They've been saying this same spiel for as long as i can remember.

Are they really struggling? Aren't they basically on the government welfare roll (CRP, forest management, subsidies, insurance, etc)?

Just wondering because when i personally have any doings with farmers (family owns land in rural WI), they have big fancy tractors, 100's of acres of crop/forest land (worth millions) and a new Chevy pick up in the driveway.

Could my local congress persons be feeding me a line of BS ?

[vision-master]

I see em over there filling up brand new 4-door diesel trucks all the time.

[copious.abundance]

It's because the price of grains and other farm commodities, adjusted for inflation, tends to go down over time.

Inflation-adjusted price of wheat

source

Inflation-adjusted price of corn

source

[Tyler_JC]

Some farmers are struggling. Lots of them are doing just fine.

[frankthetank]

I see... I bet its just a method these guys talk about to try to gather some of the rural votes... In my mind, farmers have the MOST SECURE jobs out there. The number one priority of most people i know is what they are going to eat next (eating is big in Wisconsin, so are the people)

[PrestonSturges]

Because they are selling [b]commodities[/b], meaning they have to take the market price, which puts them in competition with the biggest most mechanized farms. A orange grower gets about 2 cents per orange.

That's why a truck farmer may be better off.

[argyle]

The problem with farming is that although prices of foods (wheat, corn, soy, take your pick) are getting more expensive in the stores, they ussually only see a very small share of that increase (if any at all).

Where I'm from (Belgium) the price that is paid to the farmers for their goods has stayed the same (or a very slight increase) for many years.. I believe that 1kg of pigmeat is still around the same price as it was 15 years ago for the farmer while the price of feedstock, vet costs, construction, contracted fieldwork,.. have all increased.

They are always pushed to be more efficient as their costs rise while the price of their produces stays the same (+-). Always being pushed to grow bigger, as it's the only way they can spread over their fixed costs to a larger acreage, heads of cattle, liters of milk produced, and thus have a slightly higher profit margin. When my grandfather farmed, he and his family could live on soley of about 20 head of cattle, while my dad needed to have atleast 120-160 and 1000 pigs to have enough incommings.

Last year when there was a lot of inflation in foods, most of it went to the wholesellers, retailers, repackagers, etc and not to the farmers.They only just earned slightly bit more. Now that grains, corns, etc have come down in prices (paid to the farmers), you don't see the stuff in the stores become cheaper now do you?

My father has a "saying about it". When he was young, you could with the same amount of money buy a barrel of salted herring, or you could buy yourself an amount of eggs (either directly from the farmer or fishhall). Nowadays with the money of those same amount of eggs a farmer would earn, you can't even afford you a single herring with it bought in the store!

[yeahbut]

Why are the farmers always "struggling"?

It'a universal phenomenon. Here in New Zealand, you'd be hard pressed to find a farmer who wasn't struggling to make ends meet, what with getting the latest model hilux every couple years and sending the kids to expensive boarding schools. Honestly, you'd never hear how good things are when prices are kicking arse, but soon as prices drop, they are doing it hard...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Could it be becuase if you considered all that a farmer has to do in the course of a year to bring in his income with deadlines and no vacation unless the crops are ok that the EROEI as compared with the average income earner would make him a millionaire...

Or put a (hopefully) simpler way... with the amount of effort he has to invest in his crop (which is important) maybe he should be afforded a higher lifestyle even though we incorrectly value his contribution to society?


Cause face it I am sure he makes no where near what a lawyer or doctor would, but his job is more vital than one and just as vital as the other, but he makes peanuts.

[Cloud9]

Depends. We are pushing up a lot of orange trees because of trestasia. No money in a dead tree.

[topcat]

You also need to add in that the farmer has no employer retirement plan, no employer sponsered health care package, no paid vacation, no sick leave, no holiday pay, and no free coffee and water cooler in the corner office. These are just a few of the perks we enjoy.

TC: Speaking with a sore back, pain in my shoulder, countless old and newer scars on my hands, plants on the wagon that need to get in the ground that has standing water, and is listening to the rain fall.

[mattduke]

"I can think of very few industries in the world where the fundamentals are getting better. But the fundamentals of commodities are getting better, full stop," Rogers told CNBC last month.

The price of most commodities has jumped significantly this year, as the global economy slowly stutters toward recovery.

Gains in oil and metals prices may not have much further to go but many believe that the situation with food is different.

Soybean futures have risen 48 percent since their low, with sugar futures rising 40 percent to three-year highs.

The Indian government is so concerned by developments that it has outlawed trading in any new sugar futures contracts until the end of this year.

Jim Rogers is betting on food prices. Farming is a lot more dangerous than police work, but you never see any parades for them.
link

[kpeavey]

hundreds of acres, big trucks, big tractors, all come with maintenance, payments, and taxes. Harvests come in at the same time for commodities, meaning the market price is at its lowest level when the farmer has something to sell. A late frost can set back a crop a couple of weeks or destroy it altogether. Rain or cool weather at just the right time means the crop does not pollenate well, reduced yields. An INS roundup at the wrong time means the harvest labor is shorthanded.
The future is bleak for the industrialized farmer. While food prices are expected to rise, unavailable fuel for the machinery and long distance hauling of product to market, dropping irrigation tables will add more stress to the industry. Small farms will go under, as they have for the past 100 years, to be gobbled up by the large farms. The large farms are some of the most petroleum dependent organizations out there. When these start having troubles with financing and unavailable fuel, it will be the consumer who starts to struggle, to get food on the table.

[WisJim]

As the old saying goes "farmers buy retail and sell wholesale". This is true for a lot of things farmers buy, and certainly true of how they sell what they produce. Many of the farmers that I know are dairy farmers, and their costs are going up, while the price of milk has dropped. This year, the average dairy farmer might be losing $3 or $4 a day per cow, since their costs have been going up while their milk income is going down. The people that I know that have been doing best are the small market gardeners and CSA farmers who supply fresh vegetables etc directly to their customers, or at a farmers' market.
Most farmers used to figure that their farm was their retirement, and their kids would buy it from them, or in more recent years, the land was worth a lot and could be sold off to another farmer or a developer. I think that this is changing, too, so all that an aging farmer is often left with is a lot of land, buildings, equipment and livestock, all of which take money to keep or maintain.

[vision-master]

You also need to add in that the farmer has no employer retirement plan, no employer sponsered health care package, no paid vacation, no sick leave, no holiday pay, and no free coffee and water cooler in the corner office. These are just a few of the perks we enjoy.

TC: Speaking with a sore back, pain in my shoulder, countless old and newer scars on my hands, plants on the wagon that need to get in the ground that has standing water, and is listening to the rain fall.

an you can't get fired, have no boss and get to work outside without punching a time clock. Also you see the fruits of yer labor.

[MarkJ]

The major issue locally is pressure to sell farmland for large scale residential/commercial/industrial development, hence the need for stricter zoning and/or Farmland Preservation Grants.

$2 Million Will Keep Saratoga Farmland Rural

SARATOGA — A 404-acre dairy farm in the town of Saratoga has been awarded a $2 million state Farmland Preservation grant that will guarantee that the property remains farmland or undeveloped open space forever.

John and Barbara Hoogeveen’s farm on Cedar Bluff and Wayville roads east of Saratoga Lake has been in active farming production since the late 1800s. The farm has frontage on Mill Creek, which is a tributary of Saratoga Lake.

“We rent out to people [the Hanehans] who want to buy it,” John Hoogeveen said Wednesday. He said without the $2 million he and his wife will receive for selling future development rights on the farm, he could not sell the farmland to the Hanehans for a price they could afford to pay.

Jessica Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Agriculture and Markets, said Wednesday that the application process is very competitive. The farmland in question must be productive with high grade soils and project a farming future.

“A lot of farms are facing very serious development threats,” Chittenden said.

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2009/m ... _farmcash/

[pup55]

"farmers buy retail and sell wholesale".

I cannot help but think back to Michael Dukakis, while campaigning through Iowa, making the suggestion that some of these guys turn to more profitable crops, such as Belgian Endive, and then Ronald Reagan basically turning that against him by suggesting that planting anything other than corn or soybeans made the farmers less macho, somehow.

Kpeavey is right. The land is valued at some multiple of its productive capability... there are big fixed costs.... tractors, buildings..... there are variable costs... fuel and fertilizer.... and you have no pricing power in the marketplace because the big corporate farms in Argentina are doing the same thing on equally fertile land. It's a commodity. Plus, if you have to borrow money to do any or all of the above, you are at the mercy of the credit markets. Their dads teach them how to be farmers, but do not teach them how to do a business plan.

Plus they like to complain. Did you ever meet a farmer that did not like to complain?

Plus they won't change and plant more profitable crops because they think they will be less macho.

[SpringCreekFarm]

I know a lot of farmers and I would guess that if they could convert their farms to grow endives instead of corn or beans and make a good buck , they would. When you have a million dollars worth of equipment that is designed to get beans and corn in the ground, it is a big jump to start growing row crop vegetables. If your land is clay based you're also insane to make such a jump.

They don't grow endives because it is not as macho as corn? Give your heads a shake. I would have assumed that with all the sharp pencils around here you'd figure it out but I guess not. These guys are tied to a career that is a hell of a lot of work and the risks are huge. The low commodity prices can sink them and often do. It is not a career for a lot of the pussies that make up todays non-farming populace.

Why don't some of you folks go right out and ask them why they complain and seem to be always struggling because it is clear that you probably haven't even met a farmer. As they've said to me time and time again when I ask them why they bother...."someone has to do it".

My family has been on this farm for many generations and they never jumped on the industrial farming bandwagon which so many farmers are on. The thing is....as much as I hate it....industrial farming is why you had something to eat today, unless of course, you are Wisjim who probably eats most of his own food.

When you are done asking the farmer why he is struggling, be sure to thank him for bothering to struggle.

[vision-master]

I know a lot of farmers and I would guess that if they could convert their farms to grow endives instead of corn or beans and make a good buck , they would. When you have a million dollars worth of equipment that is designed to get beans and corn in the ground, it is a big jump to start growing row crop vegetables. If your land is clay based you're also insane to make such a jump.

They don't grow endives because it is not as macho as corn? Give your heads a shake. I would have assumed that with all the sharp pencils around here you'd figure it out but I guess not. These guys are tied to a career that is a hell of a lot of work and the risks are huge. The low commodity prices can sink them and often do. It is not a career for a lot of the pussies that make up todays non-farming populace.

Why don't some of you folks go right out and ask them why they complain and seem to be always struggling because it is clear that you probably haven't even met a farmer. As they've said to me time and time again when I ask them why they bother...."someone has to do it".

My family has been on this farm for many generations and they never jumped on the industrial farming bandwagon which so many farmers are on. The thing is....as much as I hate it....industrial farming is why you had something to eat today, unless of course, you are Wisjim who probably eats most of his own food.

When you are done asking the farmer why he is struggling, be sure to thank him for bothering to struggle.

Do you get Government farming subsidies in Kanada?

[SpringCreekFarm]

I know a lot of farmers and I would guess that if they could convert their farms to grow endives instead of corn or beans and make a good buck , they would. When you have a million dollars worth of equipment that is designed to get beans and corn in the ground, it is a big jump to start growing row crop vegetables. If your land is clay based you're also insane to make such a jump.

They don't grow endives because it is not as macho as corn? Give your heads a shake. I would have assumed that with all the sharp pencils around here you'd figure it out but I guess not. These guys are tied to a career that is a hell of a lot of work and the risks are huge. The low commodity prices can sink them and often do. It is not a career for a lot of the pussies that make up todays non-farming populace.

Why don't some of you folks go right out and ask them why they complain and seem to be always struggling because it is clear that you probably haven't even met a farmer. As they've said to me time and time again when I ask them why they bother...."someone has to do it".

My family has been on this farm for many generations and they never jumped on the industrial farming bandwagon which so many farmers are on. The thing is....as much as I hate it....industrial farming is why you had something to eat today, unless of course, you are Wisjim who probably eats most of his own food.

When you are done asking the farmer why he is struggling, be sure to thank him for bothering to struggle.

Do you get Government farming subsidies in Kanada?

No VM we don't.