[jasonraymondson]

It is companies like microsoft that are the reason this country is in debt up to its ass, that, and the the federal government allowing companies like microsoft to dictate tax policies.

If the government would stop supporting these companies and cut them off from the US market for pulling tricks that allow them to keep from paying taxes in the US, then we might have been able to survive, but thanks to these greedy companies and our impotent government we are heading down a death spiral.

Ballmer Says Tax Would Move Microsoft Jobs Offshore
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... yutzL3xApI

[pedalling_faster]

30 years ago, there were so many factories in Silicon Valley. they were torn down for the most part.

as an example, an engineer friend did some great work at some vacuum places, manufacturing engineering, etc.

he ended up - selling mortgages.

not many manufacturing jobs left. i know a woman whose husband is a CNC programmer. but there's not many jobs for CNC programmers.

can't blame all that on MS. American industry got this ultra-dumb-ass idea that they could make a little more money offshoring manufacturing.

Ford had the idea - he was aware that his own workers were also some of his best customers.

[Maddog78]

Ballmer and the rest better watch out what they say. Oobs will nationalize their ass.
Hugo splained evrayting to heem, he knows how now.

[truecougarblue]

It is companies like microsoft that are the reason this country is in debt up to its ass, that, and the the federal government allowing companies like microsoft to dictate tax policies.

I'm not going to stick up for the corporatistas here, but blaming business for the national debt is like blaming cotton bandages for leprous sores.

Wealth is produced by production and innovation. The government produces little and innovates even less.

How about we cut wasteful spending? How about letting insolvent institutions and individuals go bankrupt? How about letting up on inane regulations and laws banning victimless crimes? How about remembering that a war on greed without vilification of sloth is pointless?

[Tyler_JC]

Does anyone even understand what the tax changes Obama is proposing mean for US companies?

We're talking about a massive business tax hike the likes of which this country has never seen.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/04/AR2009050400703.html

"I want to see our companies remain the most competitive in the world. But the way to make sure that happens is not to reward our companies for moving jobs off our shores or transferring profits to overseas tax havens," Obama said, flanked by Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Douglas Shulman.

The nation's largest business groups immediately assailed the proposal, arguing that it would subject them to far higher taxes than their foreign competitors must pay and ultimately endanger U.S. jobs. Key Democrats were cool to the plan, and said Obama's ideas should be considered as part of a broader effort to streamline the nation's complex corporate tax code.

"Further study is needed to assess the impact of this plan on U.S. businesses," Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over U.S. tax law, said in a written statement. "I want to make certain that our tax policies are fair and support the global competitiveness of U.S. businesses."

Yesterday's announcement offered the first details of a tax plan that was sketched out in the $3.4 trillion budget request that Obama sent to lawmakers earlier this year and that Congress approved last week. If the measures do not survive congressional scrutiny, the lost revenue would increase already-elevated deficit projections, unless lawmakers find money elsewhere.
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Obama said his plan could serve as "a down payment on the larger tax reform we need to make our tax system simpler and fairer."

The proposal takes aim at what corporate executives consider to be one of the most critical features of the U.S. tax code: permission to indefinitely defer paying U.S. taxes on income earned overseas.

Currently, U.S. companies can avoid paying taxes on foreign profits until they bring the money back home. So a U.S. company doing business in Ireland, for example, must pay the Irish tax of 12.5 percent, like every other company doing business in Ireland. But the U.S. firm would owe an additional 22.5 percent to the U.S. Treasury (the difference between Ireland's tax rate and the 35 percent U.S. tax rate) unless it reinvests the money overseas.

The United States is the last major economic power to tax the profits of locally headquartered companies if that income is earned abroad. Other nations, including most recently Japan and Britain, are moving to a territorial system that taxes only corporate profits earned within their borders.

Instead of following that trend, Obama proposes to move in the opposite direction. He argues that the current system gives tax breaks to U.S. multinationals at the expense of companies that operate solely on American soil. In 2004, the most recent year for which statistics are available, U.S. multinationals paid an effective U.S. tax rate of just 2.3 percent on $700 billion in foreign profits, according to the administration.

"It's a tax code that says you should pay lower taxes if you create a job in Bangalore, India, than if you create one in Buffalo, New York," the president said yesterday.

So rather than cut American taxes to match our competitors, we're going to hike US corporate taxes dramatically and destroy the economy.

Companies will leave the US by the thousands. They will move their headquarters to London, Dubai, Hong Kong or Toronto. They will take their workers with them. They will take their tax revenue with them. And we won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

This tax proposal, if it passes in its current form, would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

[bratticus]

[odegaard]

...
So rather than cut American taxes to match our competitors, we're going to hike US corporate taxes dramatically and destroy the economy.

Companies will leave the US by the thousands. They will move their headquarters to London, Dubai, Hong Kong or Toronto. They will take their workers with them. They will take their tax revenue with them. And we won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

This tax proposal, if it passes in its current form, would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

I was having a discussion with a Flaming Liberal.
I asked, "Show me an example of a nation that has prospered because of Liberalism."
Without hesitation the person replied --> SWEDEN.

*delicate cough*
Corporate tax rates in Sweden is less than in the USA!
funny huh?
Even "socialistic" Sweden has figured it out.
A nation cannot over tax corporations or else they will pack their bags and leave.
Ayn Rand would nod her head in approval.

[vision-master]

I just learned, odegaard's are the main problem in the World.

[Caffeine]

I was having a discussion with a Flaming Liberal.
I asked, "Show me an example of a nation that has prospered because of Liberalism."
Without hesitation the person replied --> SWEDEN.

*delicate cough*
Corporate tax rates in Sweden is less than in the USA!
funny huh?
Even "socialistic" Sweden has figured it out.
A nation cannot over tax corporations or else they will pack their bags and leave.
Ayn Rand would nod her head in approval.

Are corporations in Sweden moving their production facilities to places like, say, China, the way American corporations have been for decades? Why or why not? Where does Sweden fit in in terms of free trade/protectionism?

[odegaard]

...
Are corporations in Sweden moving their production facilities to places like, say, China, the way American corporations have been for decades? Why or why not? Where does Sweden fit in in terms of free trade/protectionism?

short answer: I don't know
wait...
What's the topic of discussion again?
There seems to be 3 or 4 different ideas floating around here, I'm getting confused.


add on:
*takes a 2nd look at Tyler_JC's post*

The proposal takes aim at what corporate executives consider to be one of the most critical features of the U.S. tax code: permission to indefinitely defer paying U.S. taxes on income earned overseas.

Currently, U.S. companies can avoid paying taxes on foreign profits until they bring the money back home. So a U.S. company doing business in Ireland, for example, must pay the Irish tax of 12.5 percent, like every other company doing business in Ireland. But the U.S. firm would owe an additional 22.5 percent to the U.S. Treasury (the difference between Ireland's tax rate and the 35 percent U.S. tax rate) unless it reinvests the money overseas.

The United States is the last major economic power to tax the profits of locally headquartered companies if that income is earned abroad. Other nations, including most recently Japan and Britain, are moving to a territorial system that taxes only corporate profits earned within their borders.

I'm with Tyler_JC on this one.
IMHO if an American company generated profits in Ireland (or any foreign nation) than I think it's unfair to make that company pay American taxes on foreign profits.
This reminds me of how personal taxes work in the USA.
If you are an American citizen then you must pay American taxes regardless of where you live or where you generated your income. So if I had a factory in Taiwan producing widgets I'd have to pay American taxes.
How does this make any sense?
I think the USA is simply using it's "super power" status to bully people + corporations around.

my 2 cents

[jasonraymondson]

They need to fight it, not take off and shirk their responsibilities. Microsoft constantly gouges this country with an inferior product whose virus destroy millions of man hours in productivity every year, but doesn't want to pay the taxes they owe for screwing us.

I say if you don't want to pay to play, then you don't get to play.

Everyone needs to switch to linux and spend all of their time developing viruses for the soul purpose of destroying any economy that still continues to use this pile of shit product.

[truecougarblue]

I agree with you on the Linux thing.

[seldom_seen]

I've worked in the high tech industry in the northwest for years.

Microsoft employees are the most arrogant, annoying pricks you could ever run across.

They have terrible products and somehow their employees think they are the "chosen ones."

I would be happy if everyone in Redmond including that weirdo Ballmer would pack up and move to Mogadishu or wherever they can find the slave labor to keep their failed endeavors afloat.

[odegaard]

I'm running off Ubuntu Linux.

I got tired of Micro-shaft screwing me over.