[deMolay]

Something I have noticed amongst posters to Peak Oil. Generally the majority of regular posters believe that we are in or near to Peak Oil. Yet many fail to understand that as we continue down the Peak Oil trail to its end. That we are going to have smaller and smaller Gubmint. To me it means Big Gubmint is not going to be there for you or me or us. As the Social Welfare nets are stripped away and Gubmint programs are downsized or ended there really won't be anything any of us can do except prepare to take care of ourselves. Peak Oil=Peak Gubmint in all its thousands of myraid forms. It is hitting the wall. No amount of handwringing and gnashing of your teeth will bring it back.

[Fishman]

Very true. Some that seem to embrace the idea of peak oil struggle with this concept. There are outcries of everything from antitax, racism, and assorted other names. The hard reality is downsizing of everything. For those who disagree, I recommend a trip to some small third world country where gas is expensive. See reality. Europe or Cuba as a model is hilarious. They pay more for petrol as a tax BUT that money goes to the government. Take away the tax revenue as the petrol prices skyrocket and you STILL have a reduction in government.

[deMolay]

And I guess it depends upon who's "Ox is Gored" but how will the Gubmint continue to fund things like the "War on Drugs"? Endless subsidiies for higher education, welfare mom's, endless nanny state programs with dwindling resources. What social programs existed over 100 years ago? In the time before the blooming of the Age of Oil. Just as we will have Peak Food and billions starving, before we get to that point we will see thousands of programs that we take for granted stripped away, as we get down to the hard scrabble of putting food in our mouths and keeping a roof over our heads.

[gollum]

Less government does not necessarily mean better government, "governments" of the middle ages were smaller than today's government but probably not better to live under. Future governments may exact taxes or tribute under threat of a lot of force without any benefit what so ever except to whatever aristocracy forms.

[deMolay]

About the same as today. Except the peasant only paid about 10% in yearly income.

[vision-master]

Something I have noticed amongst posters to Peak Oil. Generally the majority of regular posters believe that we are in or near to Peak Oil. Yet many fail to understand that as we continue down the Peak Oil trail to its end. That we are going to have smaller and smaller Gubmint. To me it means Big Gubmint is not going to be there for you or me or us. As the Social Welfare nets are stripped away and Gubmint programs are downsized or ended there really won't be anything any of us can do except prepare to take care of ourselves. Peak Oil=Peak Gubmint in all its thousands of myraid forms. It is hitting the wall. No amount of handwringing and gnashing of your teeth will bring it back.

Wrong - more Gubmint.

[deMolay]

If you really think the state is not killing its citizen's read this book. http://www.hazlitt.org/bookofthemonth/carldrega.html

[deMolay]

VM by less Gubmint I mean less programs. Their final social program could mean a camp cot and a bowl of watery soup for example. And throw in an armed guard for YOUR OWN GOOD of course.

[vision-master]

VM by less Gubmint I mean less programs. Their final social program could mean a camp cot and a bowl of watery soup for example. And throw in an armed guard for YOUR OWN GOOD of course.

More social progams in order to avoid anarchy.

What's unemployment insurance doing now?

2 to 3 years of benefits?

[gollum]

About the same as today. Except the peasant only paid about 10% in yearly income.

I'm as much averse to big government as anyone, but don't trick yourself really repressive government is about a whole lot more than tax rates and inconvenience.

[deMolay]

Yes I am aware of the fact about how repressive Gubmint really is, which is why I posted the link to The Ballad of Carl Drega. If you can get your hands on a copy, I sure recommend reading it. Look at how the War on Drugs is going.

[Fishman]

This is not an issue of repressive government, preventive government, benevolent government of any variety in between. This is simply a fact of less money, less resources.

"More social progams in order to avoid anarchy."
Funded by WHAT?
If anarchy is the consequence of less government, then WHAT will prevent anarchy? Butterflies and sweet dreams do not pay bills. Bullets stops anarchy, I'm not advocating bullets, just stating facts.

[odegaard]

I subscribe to a political ideology that states for every $1 in government services you receive, you must pay $1 in taxes.
Basically it is impossible to receive $2 and only pay $1.

This of course begs the question if you can only receive $1 for every $1 you pay in taxes then why the hell have a government program? The answer obviously some services are best left to the gov. rather than trying to provide for it yourself. (Fire departments, Freeways, Traffic signals, etc...)
but...
Social welfare: (unemployment benefits, social security, low income housing) is a failure.
Again $1 for $1.
How is having a government run welfare system any more efficient then me, saving my own money? --> it isn't.
This is what Liberals fail to understand.
why?
Because the fundamental basis of Liberalism is the belief in trying to get something for nothing.
Liberals simply want to get $2 but only pay $1.

Yeah I was a Liberal back in the days when I was young and dumb. Then I had an epiphany and realized that $1 equals $1

If you're not a liberal at age 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative by the time you're 30, you have no brain

[shortonoil]

Fishman said:

This is not an issue of repressive government, preventive government, benevolent government of any variety in between. This is simply a fact of less money, less resources.

Less money means the ones pulling the strings will get the cash. We’ll get a chance over the next couple of years to find out for whom the government is really is run. The bankers seem to be in the lead, with DOD pulling up behind.

Will they cut food stamps for the poor, or reduce funding for the War on Drugs? Are little old ladies starving to death as important as kids smoking pot? Will they put blowing up camels in Afghanistan ahead of food riots in Harlem?

Decisions, decisions!

[pablonite]

Less money means the ones pulling the strings will get the cash. We’ll get a chance over the next couple of years to find out for whom the government is really is run. The bankers seem to be in the lead, with DOD pulling up behind.

The DOD, pffft. The alphabet agencies were created and are run by the banksters. They are inflated and deflated just like money as required, in fact there is an inverse relationship happening there

Com'on now, your talking about money and you think the banksters actually have competition? If there is some breakdown in the global monetary system perhaps but not likely IMO.

In fact we are witnessing a complete makeover of the worlds monetary system right now, happeing faster than anyone thought possible. Bigger, better and soon to be %100 digital.

[shortonoil]

pablonite said:

The DOD, pffft. The alphabet agencies were created and are run by the banksters. They are inflated and deflated just like money as required, in fact there is an inverse relationship happening there

After the bond dislocation, which is coming soon to a bank near you, and $1000 trillion in derivatives blow up, that digital money won’t be worth the electrons it was made from. With the asset destruction that has been and is taking place, the banksters currency will implode like a burnt out transistor.

You give them far more credit than is deserved. They conned the world out of everything, and now they are losing it. Their much beloved monetary system is dissolving, and regardless of what they do it can never again be remade. The $20 trillion in personal asset destruction since Bear Stearns is just the tip of the iceberg. Their smoke and mirrors currency is blowing away in a tsunami of defaults.

Uncle Willy can’t bale out everyone. Monetization has its limits, and those limits are approaching fast. Watch the TNX, about 5+% should be the magic number.

[deMolay]

Pablo this is about more than who will be stupid enough to work for worthless paper. And that is how it is headed. A dollar from the 1920's pre FDR was worth 100 cents today it is worth 15 cents in actual purchasing power and falling rapidly. Probably good asswipe is worth more per sheet well maybe not but it is getting close. So lets say that the dollar is devalued by the Gubmint printing Trillions until one piece or Purex Asswipe is equal to one US dollar will you still accept the US dollar or will you demand the asswipe because it is easier on your keester?

[pablonite]

You give them far more credit than is deserved. They conned the world out of everything, and now they are losing it. Their much beloved monetary system is dissolving, and regardless of what they do it can never again be remade.

I hope your right but so what if the digital money is not worth the electrons it was made from when they own all of the important land and resources, and enough oil to power a standing army to back up any threat to that ownership for years to come?

If we are only at peak it's hard to underestimate just how much energy is available to enforce world slavery, yet so many see some type of disintegration?

Of course the disintergration will be playing on the big screen of the created reality for the slave masses but I am looking at it from the other side. Problem, reaction, solution - pressure from above and below with ready waiting answers in the form of bigger government. Nothing will change in that respect.

This current phase of global crises' is part of a plan with only one aspect being the destruction of the middle class and the deindustrialization of North America. It will look like chaos from inside the box but from the outside it will look like clockwork I am afraid.

Many have been led to believe they understand how the world works but their only inputs are the same inputs owned and operated by a few hundred elite family dynasties. They have no idea, America was just a temporary tobacco, agriculture and livestock plantation, it is no longer required and many will be suprised to see how fast it can be deconstructed.

[deMolay]

Here is a man well served by his Gubmint. Homeless man who shines shoes to make a living. Hammered by city tax on street vendors. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/06/04/MNJQ1807UK.DTL