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Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

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Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 14:49:18

If you're unemployed, falling behind on bills can make it tougher to find work

Dan Denton is stuck in a vicious cycle: He's behind on his bills after losing his job. But lousy credit is spoiling his chances of finding new employment.

Recruiters from a St. Louis-based investment company recently rescinded an offer after looking at his credit history, which has been mauled by overdue card payments and an impending foreclosure on his Inland Empire house. He and his wife, Dana, filed for bankruptcy protection this month to try to hang on to their home.

"Of course your credit's going to look bad when you've been unemployed for months," said Denton, 60, a former fundraiser for the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. "But what relevance does that have on your performance?"

The credit report is becoming the latest hurdle for unemployed workers in a dismal U.S. job market. Up to half of employers use credit screening to weed out potentially troublesome hires, though estimates vary, and the practice is on the rise.

Money woes could signal disorder in an individual's personal life that could translate into slipshod work habits, some staffing experts said. Companies lose billions annually to employee theft. A sterling credit history, they said, points to a worker who is more likely to be disciplined, trustworthy and reliable.

Mary M. Massad, managing director of screening services for personnel management company Administaff Inc., said credit checks help companies hire "the highest-quality individuals."

"It's . . . about being proactive in order to avoid trouble down the line," she said. "Companies . . . want an insight into how an individual conducts their own life, because that's typically how they're going to conduct business inside your business."

Screening employment prospects this way is legal in California and most of the country as long as it is disclosed to applicants, who must give permission for a credit check to be run.

But some experts said that there's no clear link between credit history and job performance and that the reports don't paint a complete picture, omitting details about divorces, medical bills or even identity theft.

Nancy Novak said that when prospective employers check her credit history, they see a mountain of debts and late payments, including $30,000 in credit card bills. What's not evident, she said, is that she accumulated most of it in a failed effort to keep her small business afloat.

A former furniture broker in Southern California, she has been unemployed for two years, sending out hundreds of resumes to no avail. She said about a third of those employers have asked her permission to run a credit check. It's information she'd rather not volunteer. Still, she always says yes, figuring companies will reject her outright if she doesn't cooperate.

Novak, who recently moved into her parents' Laguna Woods home, said she wasn't sure if her credit problems alone have cost her employment. But she resents the notion that a checkered report flags her as a potential thief.

"Give me a break -- I don't have a criminal record," said Novak, 57. "My expense reports are going to be squeaky clean. I'm not going to do anything to turn over the apple cart."

Many employers aren't willing to take that chance.

Companies and organizations lose a median of 5% of their annual revenue -- billions annually -- to employee fraud, according to the Assn. of Certified Fraud Examiners.

Asset misappropriations, including skimming from the till, pilfering equipment and the like, account for 90% of all cases.

The median loss -- half of businesses lose more, half lose less -- is $150,000 annually.

The Society for Human Resource Management estimates that 40% to 50% of employers, including the U.S. government, now run credit checks on potential hires.

Applicants for security officer positions at the Transportation Security Administration are ineligible for employment if a credit check turns up more than $7,500 in past-due debt, delinquent taxes or late child support payments.

Existing security officers must also pass random credit checks to keep their jobs.

"People are more concerned about who they're hiring today," said Norm Magnuson, a spokesman for the Consumer Data Industry Assn. "There's a more aggressive bar. If someone's going to be a teller in a bank or a clerk in a jewelry store, if they're overextended in their personal financial matters it might be a precursor to a moral hazard."

Most companies pull reports produced for them by one of the major credit bureaus. Federal law permits employers to see if job prospects are paying their mortgages, credit cards and other bills on time.

But they're not allowed to see applicants' overall credit scores, and they must notify candidates if they were rejected because of their credit.

But some firms bury the initial credit-search request -- usually just a signature line -- inside a hefty application, so that job seekers frequently aren't aware they're granting permission, said Adam T. Klein, an employment attorney with Outten & Golden in New York. He said companies often don't inform prospects if their lousy credit was what got them rejected.

"And so you have sort of a hidden problem," Klein said, "a very clear pattern of using credit score and credit history for employment suitability [and] almost no information available to the applicant who was denied employment based on that."

He and others question the usefulness of such reports. There's no clear correlation between credit history and job performance, according to a 2003 study by Eastern Kentucky University.

And the dossiers are prone to errors. More than one-third of companies surveyed by the Society for Human Resource Management in 2004 said that they found inaccuracies in the credit histories they pulled on job prospects.

"As an employer, you may be shooting yourself in the foot," said Deb Cohen, chief knowledge officer at the industry group.

Connecticut, Hawaii and New York have bills in play in their state legislatures that would restrict pre-employment credit checks. Employer groups in those states aren't happy.

"It's a step in the wrong direction at one of the worst economic times for employers," said Kia Murrell, labor and employment counsel for the Connecticut Business & Industry Assn. "True, your ability to type has nothing to do with your ability to pay a MasterCard bill, but credit references should be available as one of many factors used to evaluate you."

But to desperate applicants, a blemished credit check can mean the difference between continued struggle and a job offer.

A year ago, Denton had a solid credit score above 700, according to old Experian reports. But now, for the first time in their lives, he and his spouse are out of work.

Their Menifee, Calif., home plunged $250,000 in value. The couple are preparing to move into a trailer and are living on less than $1,000 a month in unemployment benefits.

"You think there's no chance of being out of work more than a month," Denton said. "But as it drags on, we're just completely in the bunker."

The couple's savings lasted three months. Although Denton said he tried to work out payment plans, at least three of the couple's credit cards are now in collection. Interest rates on others have soared.

Meanwhile, he has agreed to at least a dozen credit checks, knowing that recruiters won't find much that's flattering.

"My wife's credit destroys mine and mine destroys hers," he said.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-badcredit7-2009jun07,0,2666439.story?page=2


Yet another story about how the deck is stacked against the little guy. The elites get to incorporate into "limited liability corporations" and thereby protect their personal credit from any liability for failure. The working man has no such option, of course.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 15:33:13

Sixstrings wrote:Yet another story about how the deck is stacked against the little guy. The elites get to incorporate into "limited liability corporations" and thereby protect their personal credit from any liability for failure. The working man has no such option, of course.


Jesus.

Deck is stacked? Elites use LLCs?

What the hell are you talking about?

This is another one of those simple correlations - the lower your credit rating, the more likely you are to be a LOSER.

Companies know this, and they use it to screen people.

Sure, some small percentage of people had some bad luck and have a poor credit score for that reason.

But most people with poor credit scores are losers who would rather spend 5 bucks a day on Marlboros rather than buckle down, work hard, and stop spending more than they earn.

As for LLCs, they have got nothing to do with elites having good credit ratings, to the extent they do.

LLCs serve the function of insulating personal assets from lawsuit. A needed function, or every piece of crap loser with a poor credit score would be looking to sue the "elite rich guy" because he "slipped" in the "rich guy's" store. Or whatever.

Keep it simple people.

If you have a poor credit score, the odds are very strong that you're a loser when it comes to money. You can't handle it. Stop looking to blame a "vicious cycle" for your woes. You have a poor credit rating because you handle money like a child.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 15:53:20

Schmuto wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Yet another story about how the deck is stacked against the little guy. The elites get to incorporate into "limited liability corporations" and thereby protect their personal credit from any liability for failure. The working man has no such option, of course.


Jesus.

Deck is stacked? Elites use LLCs?

What the hell are you talking about?

This is another one of those simple correlations - the lower your credit rating, the more likely you are to be a LOSER.

Companies know this, and they use it to screen people.

Sure, some small percentage of people had some bad luck and have a poor credit score for that reason.

But most people with poor credit scores are losers who would rather spend 5 bucks a day on Marlboros rather than buckle down, work hard, and stop spending more than they earn.

As for LLCs, they have got nothing to do with elites having good credit ratings, to the extent they do.

LLCs serve the function of insulating personal assets from lawsuit. A needed function, or every piece of crap loser with a poor credit score would be looking to sue the "elite rich guy" because he "slipped" in the "rich guy's" store. Or whatever.

Keep it simple people.

If you have a poor credit score, the odds are very strong that you're a loser when it comes to money. You can't handle it. Stop looking to blame a "vicious cycle" for your woes. You have a poor credit rating because you handle money like a child.


"odds are very strong"
"most people with poor credit scores are losers"
"some small percentage of people had some bad luck "

Admit it... you're just making that up.

You don't have any real idea what the numbers are... but it sounds good.

Magic Eight Ball says... Try Again.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 15:59:36

Schmuto wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Yet another story about how the deck is stacked against the little guy. The elites get to incorporate into "limited liability corporations" and thereby protect their personal credit from any liability for failure. The working man has no such option, of course.


Jesus.

Deck is stacked? Elites use LLCs?

What the hell are you talking about?

This is another one of those simple correlations - the lower your credit rating, the more likely you are to be a LOSER.

Companies know this, and they use it to screen people.

Sure, some small percentage of people had some bad luck and have a poor credit score for that reason.

But most people with poor credit scores are losers who would rather spend 5 bucks a day on Marlboros rather than buckle down, work hard, and stop spending more than they earn.

As for LLCs, they have got nothing to do with elites having good credit ratings, to the extent they do.

LLCs serve the function of insulating personal assets from lawsuit. A needed function, or every piece of crap loser with a poor credit score would be looking to sue the "elite rich guy" because he "slipped" in the "rich guy's" store. Or whatever.

Keep it simple people.

If you have a poor credit score, the odds are very strong that you're a loser when it comes to money. You can't handle it. Stop looking to blame a "vicious cycle" for your woes. You have a poor credit rating because you handle money like a child.


A small business is usually not incorporated, and if it goes down it takes the little guy small businessman's credit into the crapper with it.

The elites, however, can afford to incorporate their businesses to protect the business owner(s) credit and assets if and when the company goes belly-up.

But never mind, you're probably right. All these people out of work right now and getting in credit trouble, it's all their fault because working people are just children and they're all losers. :roll:

So Schmuto, what would you do with the 14% unemployed in this country? Since you think they're all losers and would be rightly denied employment because of credit history, then what do you DO with them?

I highly doubt you're the type to support a welfare state, so I suppose you'd just send them to the FEMA camps? Or just let them eat cake?
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby kpeavey » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 16:36:16

You expect me to believe that in this day and age there are repercussions for making mistakes and bad decisions?

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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby nobodypanic » Mon 08 Jun 2009, 18:46:52

Schmuto wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Yet another story about how the deck is stacked against the little guy. The elites get to incorporate into "limited liability corporations" and thereby protect their personal credit from any liability for failure. The working man has no such option, of course.


Jesus.

Deck is stacked? Elites use LLCs?

What the hell are you talking about?

This is another one of those simple correlations - the lower your credit rating, the more likely you are to be a LOSER.

Companies know this, and they use it to screen people.

Sure, some small percentage of people had some bad luck and have a poor credit score for that reason.

But most people with poor credit scores are losers who would rather spend 5 bucks a day on Marlboros rather than buckle down, work hard, and stop spending more than they earn.

As for LLCs, they have got nothing to do with elites having good credit ratings, to the extent they do.

LLCs serve the function of insulating personal assets from lawsuit. A needed function, or every piece of crap loser with a poor credit score would be looking to sue the "elite rich guy" because he "slipped" in the "rich guy's" store. Or whatever.

Keep it simple people.

If you have a poor credit score, the odds are very strong that you're a loser when it comes to money. You can't handle it. Stop looking to blame a "vicious cycle" for your woes. You have a poor credit rating because you handle money like a child.

you work for one those credit bureaus, don't you? :lol:

if you do, with unemployment pushing 21% and climbing (SGS-ALT), i wouldn't let anyone know. keep it on the down low, as i think the zombie mobs will be looking to gleefully lynch those kinds of poor fellows in the not so distant future.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 02:57:25

Sixstrings wrote:\A small business is usually not incorporated, and if it goes down it takes the little guy small businessman's credit into the crapper with it.

The elites, however, can afford to incorporate their businesses to protect the business owner(s) credit and assets if and when the company goes belly-up.



I remember looking into it a few years back and incorporating was something like $400 up here. I'm sure you can add some more for lawyers and so on when first getting going but it's far from a something only the rich can afford. Hell even the last company I worked for incorporated and you don't get much more rinky dink then that place.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby MD » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 04:48:54

I've started two corporations (one S, one C) and 2 LLC's. None cost more than $1000 to set up.

"Not available to small businessmen?" You've no idea wtf you are talking about...

As for the credit thing...Would I want an employee that's in personal financial crisis or one that had his/her look-ahead radar functioning and was therefore ready for the shit-storm?...hmmm...tough choice.

And before you tag me as a ruthless or cynical bastard, I had to go through bankruptcy myself a number of years back. it sucked. My credit score went in the toilet.

I won't tell you what it is today. Nunya bizness. I will say "no worries" though.

Yeah I feel bad for those that have fallen off the wagon. I prove it by giving generously to charities serving the poor. Employees though? I need winners so my company can stay healthy and I can continue giving generously to the poor.

Thanks and good luck!

edit: A little advice to those seekign employment with toiletized credit scores: Be Proactive! When asked for credit score authorization, admit to "credit issues", say "no" to authorization, but be prepared to present a personal financial statement that shows your current cash flow, what you've done to solve imbalances, and how wonderful and rosy your future looks now that you've trimmed down to living within your current means...You have done all that, right?...No?...well then, skip the job search, go ahead and hit bottom, and start over. You can do it!
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 06:59:02

So do you think someone would have been stupid to employ you when your score was in the toilet?
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 08:50:00

MD wrote:I've started two corporations (one S, one C) and 2 LLC's. None cost more than $1000 to set up.

"Not available to small businessmen?" You've no idea wtf you are talking about...

As for the credit thing...Would I want an employee that's in personal financial crisis or one that had his/her look-ahead radar functioning and was therefore ready for the shit-storm?...hmmm...tough choice.

And before you tag me as a ruthless or cynical bastard, I had to go through bankruptcy myself a number of years back. it sucked. My credit score went in the toilet.

I won't tell you what it is today. Nunya bizness. I will say "no worries" though.

Yeah I feel bad for those that have fallen off the wagon. I prove it by giving generously to charities serving the poor. Employees though? I need winners so my company can stay healthy and I can continue giving generously to the poor.

Thanks and good luck!

edit: A little advice to those seekign employment with toiletized credit scores: Be Proactive! When asked for credit score authorization, admit to "credit issues", say "no" to authorization, but be prepared to present a personal financial statement that shows your current cash flow, what you've done to solve imbalances, and how wonderful and rosy your future looks now that you've trimmed down to living within your current means...You have done all that, right?...No?...well then, skip the job search, go ahead and hit bottom, and start over. You can do it!


You're not seeing the big picture. In the short term, yes, it's helpful for you as a business owner to weed out the bad credit "losers." But in the long term, the big picture, this practice creates a catch-22 TRAP that people can't escape. One has bad credit due to financial catastrophe, yet one cannot financially recover without good employment. See the paradox there? Add to that, our Corporate shills in Congress have made it much more difficult for a working man to get a fresh start from declaring bankruptcy.

It's much easier for the holders of capital to get a fresh start. If the business fails, you declare corporate bankruptcy and just start a new corporation with a brand spankin' new line of credit. Thanks to the magic of incorporation, a person can fail at five businesses and still come out smelling like a rose as far as their PERSONAL credit is concerned. Simply put, the corporation exists to shield Owners from liability for their own failures. The workingman has NO such protection available to him.

There are also MAJOR discrimination and personal privacy concerns here. When you have those credit reports in hand, you know about all the applicant's medical problems because you know about their medical bills. Now we all know that as a business owner, of course you don't want to hire John Smith whose back went out big time five years ago.

So of course you'd LIKE to have that information, but should you? Honestly, this Big Brother intrusiveness on the part of goobermint & The Corporation are bad mojo. It used to be that only a felony would render someone virtually unemployable. I can understand this, as I don't want to work with somebody who has a felony. But permanently shutting people out of society does have consequences -- this is a major cause of criminal recidivism in this country. The guys that get out of jail just can't get jobs, so are we surprised they return to crime? Of all the first world nations, the US has the largest percentage of it's population behind bars.

And so now in addition to the felony record underclass, we have the bad credit and poor health underclasses. You corporate statist republicans are sealing your own doom with these labor-abusive policies. The Republicans are already banished for all time on the national level, so now labor just has to defeat the corporate shills within the Democratic party.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby jdmartin » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 10:31:25

Don't know how I feel really about credit scores for employees - I guess it depends on the employee. If I'm hiring someone who handles a lot of money, I'd probably want to know that they're in debt up to their eyeballs. I fail to see how a warehouse box stacker's credit has anything to do with his job.

As for corporations and LLCs they're both BS. There should be no personal shielding of anyone for anything the company does. Stockholders, as the "owners" of companies, should be just as liable for the company's debts as you, the sole proprietor of a small business, would be. The lie about slipping customers and sue-happy bums is BS as well because insurance covers those things, which all companies have (or should have).

If that setup was the case - where the shareholders, as owners, were exposed to whatever bad things the company was up to - whether going under in an orgy of debt, externalizing costs through blatant environmental destruction, etc - people would be a)much more careful about what they bought with their money and b)much more careful as a company how they conducted themselves. The idea of a corporation - where shareholders can revel in the profits but only be out their initial gambling money, while the rest of society gets to eat the fallout of unpaid debts, unemployed workers, destroyed environment, etc - is a bunch of crap. The ridiculous advantages conveyed upon corporations is what makes it difficult for small businessmen to succeed.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 10:43:30

jdmartin wrote:Don't know how I feel really about credit scores for employees - I guess it depends on the employee. If I'm hiring someone who handles a lot of money, I'd probably want to know that they're in debt up to their eyeballs. I fail to see how a warehouse box stacker's credit has anything to do with his job.

As for corporations and LLCs they're both BS. There should be no personal shielding of anyone for anything the company does. Stockholders, as the "owners" of companies, should be just as liable for the company's debts as you, the sole proprietor of a small business, would be. The lie about slipping customers and sue-happy bums is BS as well because insurance covers those things, which all companies have (or should have).

If that setup was the case - where the shareholders, as owners, were exposed to whatever bad things the company was up to - whether going under in an orgy of debt, externalizing costs through blatant environmental destruction, etc - people would be a)much more careful about what they bought with their money and b)much more careful as a company how they conducted themselves. The idea of a corporation - where shareholders can revel in the profits but only be out their initial gambling money, while the rest of society gets to eat the fallout of unpaid debts, unemployed workers, destroyed environment, etc - is a bunch of crap. The ridiculous advantages conveyed upon corporations is what makes it difficult for small businessmen to succeed.


Bless you JD, finally somebody agrees with me somewhat.

I do realize that the corporation is fundamental to capitalism and of course it is here to stay. All I wanted to point out though is how our system gives a massive advantage to holders of capital over working people. I'm talking about more than just the inherent advantage of wealth, the corporation allows the wealthy to in effect create a disposable clone of themselves -- the Corporation is a legal entity, with all the rights of a person but not all of the responsibilities.

Working people have no such option to incorporate themselves. Wouldn't it be nice to say "ok, I'm entering a new line of work, so I'll incorporate myself for my own protection -- if I fail and get fired or get sick, I can re-incorporate myself and start again with a clean slate."

As for the credit checks, I agree with you. Obviously, it makes sense for those seeking employment in the financial or security sectors. But these credit checks are now being done for grocery store jobs and call centers -- that's just not right.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 10:58:06

Aaron wrote:Admit it... you're just making that up.

You don't have any real idea what the numbers are... but it sounds good.

Magic Eight Ball says... Try Again.


Not at all. This is a few decades of personal observation and a close familiarity with bankruptcy law.

Most people who have lousy credit ratings got them because they are financially immature. That is, they're grown up children who eat too much candy and drink too much soda. Saying "I was born with bad teeth" when the caries show up is just more of the same immature irresponsibility that got them in the shitter in the first place.

There are exceptions.

But the existence of exceptions does not disprove the general applicability of the concept.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:07:18

Schmuto wrote:
Aaron wrote:Admit it... you're just making that up.

You don't have any real idea what the numbers are... but it sounds good.

Magic Eight Ball says... Try Again.


Not at all. This is a few decades of personal observation and a close familiarity with bankruptcy law.

Most people who have lousy credit ratings got them because they are financially immature. That is, they're grown up children who eat too much candy and drink too much soda. Saying "I was born with bad teeth" when the caries show up is just more of the same immature irresponsibility that got them in the shitter in the first place.

There are exceptions.

But the existence of exceptions does not disprove the general applicability of the concept.


And you don't think the Fed and profits-at-any-cost Republicans bear any responsibility for this fast, loose, and easy credit? Maybe people use credit like children because children are targeted -- they used to hand those cards out to college freshmen like candy you know, in gift bags with Mountain Dew and all kinds of childish treats inside.

What you aren't acknowledging is that TPTB have wanted us to live on credit since the 70's. Average middle class income in this nation has FALLEN about 40% since 1972. Easy credit is the only reason nobody noticed a lower standard of living.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:08:48

Sixstrings wrote:A small business is usually not incorporated, and if it goes down it takes the little guy small businessman's credit into the crapper with it.

The elites, however, can afford to incorporate their businesses to protect the business owner(s) credit and assets if and when the company goes belly-up.



1st, we can put the small-businessperson-who-failed people into the "exception" category.

2nd, incorporation in any of the few states I've lived in costs a couple of hundred bucks and a few forms. It's simple, if you care to take the time.

That's really beside the main point, however, as no bank is going to loan to a one person LLC anyway - you're going to have to put your personal credit on the line.

But to say, "small businesses can't incorporate" is just plain demonstrative of your ignorance of business.

I'd venture, in fact, that most of the LLCs out there are small going concerns.

"Elites," as you put it, don't start LLCs unless it's an LLC that uses venture capital. Hey, if you can get other people to invest their money in your idea, why not?

But never mind, you're probably right. All these people out of work right now and getting in credit trouble, it's all their fault because working people are just children and they're all losers.

Yeah, not what I wrote.

In any event, the people who are out of work right now had about 30 years of prosperity to get their shit in order. If they decided to take on massive debt and not have a one or two year buffer of cash to pay expenses, then, with few exceptions, they fit what I'm saying.

If you have been employed, for example, from 1995 to 2007 and you lose your job, it's your own damn fault, with few exceptions, if you didn't save enough money to go a couple of years without being bankrupt.

It's the SUV McMansion mentality that it's somehow not your fault if you overextend yourself and then, 6 months after losing your job, you're out of money.


So Schmuto, what would you do with the 14% unemployed in this country? Since you think they're all losers and would be rightly denied employment because of credit history, then what do you DO with them?

1st, not what I said. You take my "most" and make it an "all" because it fits what you want to be true.

What would I do? Not a damn thing other than make sure they know it was their fault they ended up where they did. That way, maybe, they will learn their lesson.

Your way, of course, is to tell them their juvenile fiscal management is the fault of "elites," and they are powerless to do anything but live paycheck to paycheck.

How come everybody I know living paycheck to paycheck owns an SUV or smokes?

I highly doubt you're the type to support a welfare state, so I suppose you'd just send them to the FEMA camps? Or just let them eat cake?


I'm happy to help. Here's just a starting point . . .

Lose weight. Stop smoking. Give up all TV and your cell phone. Don't ever pay for prepared food. Stop wasting money on clothes. Grow your own food to the extent you can. Don't live in a house you can't afford. Sell your gas guzzler.

After you do that, come back and let's talk about step 2.

If you can't muster the commitment to do those things, you are a loser who has yet to hit rock bottom. Hang on, it's a rough ride down.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:10:08

Sixstrings wrote:
What you aren't acknowledging is that TPTB have wanted us to live on credit since the 70's. Average middle class income in this nation has FALLEN about 40% since 1972. Easy credit is the only reason nobody noticed a lower standard of living.


I acknowledge the truth of your words, above.

They don't, however, change the analysis one bit.

The fact that a fat man has a fat wife providing him with tasty tidbits all day long is not the reason he is fat.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:12:31

Lose weight. Stop smoking. Give up all TV and your cell phone. Don't ever pay for prepared food. Stop wasting money on clothes.


And just how is that supposed to help a person pass an employer's credit check? It's credit checks we're talking about here, not fat checks and not tv viewing habits.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:16:21

Schmuto wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:
What you aren't acknowledging is that TPTB have wanted us to live on credit since the 70's. Average middle class income in this nation has FALLEN about 40% since 1972. Easy credit is the only reason nobody noticed a lower standard of living.


I acknowledge the truth of your words, above.

They don't, however, change the analysis one bit.

The fact that a fat man has a fat wife providing him with tasty tidbits all day long is not the reason he is fat.


Schmuto, you seriously underestimate the power that culture has over a people. Culture is everything. And in this country, the culture is one of greed and happiness-through-consumption. Consumerism is THE bedrock of the entire nation.

People can't just choose to up and become Amish and turn their back on everything it means to be an American. You may not want to admit it, but the profiteers of consumerism control the culture, and therefore control the
people.

EDIT: thanks for agreeing to one of my points by the way, now I'm happy and get off this damn pc and go consume something :)
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 20:01:00

Sixstrings wrote:
People can't just choose to up and become Amish and turn their back on everything it means to be an American.


Why not? And "everything it means to be an American" is not just the bad things.

For example, I'd call being responsible for one's own actions the single greatest American principle.

You are a Marxist.

The core of Marxism - convince people that they are powerless to change their lot in life.

Once you get them believing that, they don't struggle when the yokes are fastened.
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Re: Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad

Unread postby Schmuto » Tue 09 Jun 2009, 20:02:52

Sixstrings wrote:And just how is that supposed to help a person pass an employer's credit check? It's credit checks we're talking about here, not fat checks and not tv viewing habits.


If you don't see how one relates to the other, then you have a long way to go my friend.
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